On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 15:04:13 -0800 bill kilpatrick wrote:
i can't see how an antique design like the jungga 2 (a rectangle inserted into a circle) could come from anywhere other than europe.
I can't see either but only as "antique" as a bold sketch of a modern guitar shape could be (not sure what you mean by "a rectangle inserted into a circle", please explain).
seeing that the jungga 1 is a "boat" shaped lute - in keeping with many of the indigenous, southeast asian designs for plucky instruments - the "2" stands apart as something unique.
Jungga1 is a totally different story and shouldn't be really mixed with what came much later. Junga2 most probably serves the same purpose in music making nowadays as jungga1 did for the last four - five centuries or so and hence similarity in its name. For example, think of a similar situation with arrival of European violin (held against the player's knee, not the shoulder) to the Middle East and its gradual replacement, from about 1950s or so, of the traditional rabab and kemençe in classical ensembles of Turkish, Iranian and Arab music (I mean "classical" in their own way, not as in "European classical music").
my knowledge of indonesian history - as it relates to europe - is sketchy at best but i would have thought it more than probable that a design of european - no doubt iberian - orign (like that of the rectangle and circle) would have been in circulation in the area way before the 20th cent..
It would be too simplistic to ascribe too much influence here on behalf of, as you say, "European and Iberian" origin; well, unless you know the facts ..
i'm sure you're familiar with these early charango designs (imported from europe, i would suggest) but for the purposes of illustration, here they are: ...
I can't open this link I'm afraid.
was the jungga 2 design found anywhere in europe in the 20th cent.? ... would it have been brought to indonesia in sufficent numbers to influence local instrument design?
And why should I think only of charango connection here ...? To conclude, I put it as "early 20th century", in fact I think it could have happened quite a bit later, 1950 - 60s. --- Alexander To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
