Rob,
I'm pasting in extracts from an earlier communications I had with Monica Hall
which you may find of interest.
Martyn
-----------------------------------------
>From Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thanks for the very useful list of references. I knew that someone
would pick up on the fact that all the examples I mentioned were women! I
think your explanation is probably right. They look nice like that.
However the (male) players I have observed who do tend to play with the
little finger on the soundboard don't keep it glued there all the time - it
seems to be more of a point of reference to which they return in moments of
repose (hope that sounds suitably poetic). It is not something confined to
the thumb in rather than thumb out position either. But you certainly can't do
elaborate strumming like that.
The other thing about illustrations is that they capture a single moment in
time - and what is picturesque. What they can tell us is rather limited.
As with everything else I suspect different players did different things for
different reasons - yesterday, today and for ever.
Monica
>From Martyn Hodgson:
I guess part of any possible differences between lute and guitar rioght
hand positions must be related to strumming: it is extremely inhibiting if the
little finger is placed on the belly (especially close to the bridge as the
lute) - tho not impossible as some of the pictures listed below suggest.
Further, and speculatively, the pictures you mention are of, presumably,
amatuer (and women! - sorry) players who might, indeed, frequently have been
taught a less florid, more 'ladylike', style requiring limited strumming (tho'
a couple of nice exceptions in the short list below). We note many other
pictures showing a much higher hand position with few representations of little
finger on belly, esp close to the bridge. Some examples of various types up to
early 18th C from Grunfeld (The Art and Times of the Guitar, 1969) in page
order (I make no comment on the text - or sex....):
LITTLE FINGER ON BELLY CLOSE TO BRIDGE
Engraving -Dame de qualite jouant de la Guitarre(Trouvain, Paris 1694)
Ditto (Berey, Paris c 1690)
Netscher - Lady playing guitar (1680)
Vermeer - guitar player (c 1670)
Teniers - guitarist (c 1670)
Quesnel - Young woman playing guitar (1681)
LITTLE FINGER ON BELLY BUT PLAYED HIGH
Fresco - Young woman playing a Guitar (Venice c 1650?)
Du Boullogne - The five senses (c 1630)
Raoux - The dangerous lesson!?/liaison (c1700)
NO FINGER ON BELLY PLAYED HIGH
Engrafing - Dame en habit de chambre (1675)
Amants Donnant une Seranade (Paris 1693)
Le Caffe de Rome (Paris c 1700)
Title plate of Foscarini's 4th book
Velasquez - Three musicians (c 1630)
Rombouts - Ditto (c 1630)
Rombouts - Musicians (c1630)
Ryckaert - A Musical Gathering (c 1660) NB - WOMAN!
Ryckaert - Hausmusik (c 1650)
De Boullogne- guitarist (c 1630)
Daret - guitarist (c 1660)
Coques - the duo (c 1670) NB Man and woman both playing v high no finger on
belly
Lely - Ladies of the Lake family (c1660)
Teniers - guitarist (c1670).
Schubler - Amours.... (c 1730?)
Watteau ' scene d'amour (c1710)
Watteau - Five different drawing studies (c1710)
Clearly, this list is selective (I don't know Grunfeld's criteria for
inclusion) but all this variation suggests (like with lute right hand
position) much need for proper comprehensive research. Nevertheless from
memories of other representations, I'd say it is a reasonably fair cross
section of pictures and suggests that MOSTLY the little finger wasn't rested on
the belly and that a highish hand position (say towards the rose) was common.
(NB I mean to say that the little finger wasn't mostly rested on the belly
close to the bridge (not that it wasn't rested at all): Iike you I suspect that
in more plucked passages a reversion to the resting position might have been
usual).
Finally, and I think of interest in this context, when the modern plucking
style came in (c 1800) many representations show little finger again on the
belly plucking between the bridge and rose (indeed, some of the great 19thC
virtuosi used this - Regondi, Mertz...). I presume this reversion is because
there was no longer much call for florid strumming.
Martyn
--- On Fri, 30/5/08, Rob MacKillop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: Rob MacKillop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [VIHUELA] strumming near the bridge
> To: "Vihuela" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Date: Friday, 30 May, 2008, 9:56 PM
> A couple of people have emailed me questioning my strumming
> near the bridge.
> My first response would be to say, 'just because it
> isn't mentioned in the
> didactic literature doesn't mean it wasn't
> done', but today I found some
> supporting evidence.
>
> Fernando Fernadiere's <i>Arte De Tocar La
> Guitarra Espanola</i> might be
> considered a late source, 1799, and for a six-course
> instrument. However,
> the 6c guitar was a new-fangled instrument, and the
> five-course guitar was
> still very much alive. Discussing right-hand technique, he
> says:
> ''The right hand is placed fairly firmly very close
> to the sound-hole,
> because that is where a sweet and agreeable tone is
> obtained; and not next
> to the bridge, which is where it is commonly strummed and
> played in
> barber-style''.
>
> Rob
>
> --
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
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