Well - if you find it - do let us know!
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martyn Hodgson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Monica Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: arch-guitar
Thanks
As said, I have a copy of the pattern somewhere - just have to find it!
I have however now found the FoMRHI article which mentions Strad's
'chitara tiorbata' (by yrs truly): FoMRHI Comm 663 October 1985 'The
stringing of a baroque guitar'. Unfortunately, my aim in the paper was to
look at evidence for stringing of the top 5 courses and, whilst I refer to
Strad's records of the theorboed instrument, I only quote his remarks on the
first 10 strings (ie 5 courses) and none on the basses.
MH
--- On Tue, 9/9/08, Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: arch-guitar
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Tuesday, 9 September, 2008, 8:47 PM
The information comes from
Sacconi, Simone F., The secrets of Stradivari (Cremona :
Libreria del
Convegno, 1979), Item 375, p.228.
It's a paper pattern of a neck and fingerboard 320mm
long by 72 mm and 60
min width... with a description of the strings and their
arrangement at the
nut. There is a handwritten note on the back by the sons
of Strad "Misura
della Longezza et largezza del manico della chitara
tiorbata" followed by
the description of the strings.
I wonder if anyone has seen the paper pattern? Or has a
copy of it?
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martyn Hodgson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Monica Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Vihuelalist"
<vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: arch-guitar
I'm really not so sure Monica. Whilst it's
certainly true that whenever
Strad is mentioned it's generally only the five courses
which are of
interest and so are the only ones referred to, But I have
this nagging
memory that in fact he describes theorboed guitar
stringing. Indeed I also
recall FoMRHI had relevant articles in mid/late 70s - I
must look.
I've been to my stack (ie loft) to find the
articles/facsimile but no luck
so far in the piles of misc paper - I will persevere...
Another who thinks the basses are at the upper octave is
Tyler ( 'the
guitar... OUP 2002) page 74 Footnote 51 where he describes
Granata's
theorboed guitar as having seven 'unfingered basses
tuned daitonically down
to a A at the bottom of the bass clef' ie down to A as
I suggest and not to
A,. Of course Tyler is not always reliable , but.....
Sources requiring
the same instruments are listed as Granata 1659, the De
Gallot Ms, I-NC Ms
(have you got this?) and Bob Spencer's sonata for
'chitarrone francese'.
Of course, by the mid 18th century the various types of
arch citterns and
arch guitars introduced as novelties could use heavy
overwound strings and
be strung down to A,. But, as said earlier, I really
can't see getting a
satisfactory sound from a gut string c. 116cm at A,.
MH
--- On Tue, 9/9/08, Monica Hall
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: arch-guitar
> To: "Martyn Hodgson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: "Vihuelalist"
<vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Date: Tuesday, 9 September, 2008, 4:35 PM
> Stradivarius describes the strings on the fingerboard
and
> the 4th and 5th
> courses are octave strung.
>
>
>
> I don't think he describes the open courses.
>
>
>
> Monica
>
>
>
>
>
> First & second strings: These must be like two
guitar
> first strings
> (cantini)
>
> Third & fourth strings:These must be
like
> two guitar second
> strings (sotanelle)
>
> Fifth & sixth strings: These must be like two
> thick violin first
> strings (cantini)
>
> Seventh string: This must be a violin
second
> string (canto)
>
> Eighth string: This must be a guitar
second
> string
> (sotanella)
>
> Ninth string: This must be the thickest possible
> violin second string
> (canto)
>
> Tenth string: This must be a violin
first
> string (cantino)
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martyn Hodgson"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Rob MacKillop"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: "Vihuela"
<vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 3:21 PM
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: arch-guitar
>
>
>
> Yes, indeed, they would double some of the fingered
strings
> but that, I
> think, is the point: you can play an open bass whilst
> fingering a string
> (even though the same open pitch) - the same advantage
> indeed as the late Dm
> lute of course ie not so much/or only to get lower
notes
> but to free the
> left hand.
>
> I mention all this because I recall an early source
(may be
> Strad's arch
> guitar) gives higher octave stringing (I can't lay
my
> hands on the paperwork
> at the present but will dig out in due course.
>
> Monica may know what I'm on about.......
>
> Martyn
>
>
> --- On Tue, 9/9/08, Rob MacKillop
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > From: Rob MacKillop
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: arch-guitar
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Cc: "Vihuela"
> <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Date: Tuesday, 9 September, 2008, 3:07 PM
> > The string length of the basses is c.116cms. I
say
> > 'circa' because I
> > couldn't find a tape measure, so ended up
using
> a
> > six-inch ruler...
> >
> > The Granata Sarbande and Corrente do not have
> passages
> > that would
> > suggest anything other than GFEDCBA. In the
tuning
> you
> > mention, Martyn,
> > (gfedcBA) does not the g double the open third
> course,
> > and likewise the
> > d with the fourth course? I can't see any
> allowances
> > for that in the
> > scores.
> >
> > The Sarabande is difficult to play without
laughing
> -
> > the first seven
> > bass notes (tasto) chime out Prokofiev's
Hall
> of the
> > Mountain King (if
> > that's the correct title) from Pictures at
an
> > Exhibition... This music
> > is difficult to play! I wish I hadn't
promised
> a
> > video!!
> >
> > Rob
> > 2008/9/8 Martyn Hodgson
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > Rob,
> > Thanks - interesting: there's a thought
that
> the
> > 'basses' could have
> > been at the upper octave rather than the
lower as
> you
> > indicate. In
> > short, descending from the 5th course string
> plucked
> > first by the
> > thumb (ie from the a downwards g f e d c B A
and
> not
> > G F E D C B,
> > A, as you say it's now strung.
What's
> the
> > string length of the
> > basses? I would have thought it needed to be
> around
> > 160cm to get a
> > reasonable sound from a plain gut low A,
string
> but
> > I'm not sure
> > that any theorboed guitar had basses so very
> long.
> > Martyn
> >
> > --- On Mon, 8/9/08, Rob MacKillop
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > From: Rob MacKillop
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > > Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] arch-guitar
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Cc: "Vihuela"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date: Monday, 8 September, 2008, 10:25
AM
> >
> > > It has diapasons on the fourth and fifth,
on
> the
> > finger
> > > side, high octave on
> > > the thumb side. Then it has single bass
> strings
> > descending
> > > from G to low A,
> > > then it leaps up for a g# and an f#.
> > >
> > > I don't know if it 'works for
me'
> - not
> > sure
> > > what that means. Seems to fit
> > > the music by Granata OK.
> > >
> > > Wolfgang has made the lower nut wide
enough to
> fit
> > a sixth
> > > course for
> > > archlute tuning in E or F. I won't
have
> time to
> > explore
> > > that, however.
> > >
> > > Rob
> > >
> > > 2008/9/8 Martyn Hodgson
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > > > Rob,
> > > >
> > > > Are the basses at the upper octave
and
> does
> > this work
> > > for you?
> > > >
> > > > Martyn
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- On Sun, 7/9/08, Rob MacKillop
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > From: Rob MacKillop
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Subject: [VIHUELA] arch-guitar
> > > > > To: "Vihuela"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Date: Sunday, 7 September,
2008,
> 11:23 PM
> > > > > Just received the arch-guitar
from
> > Wolfgand
> > > Emmerich. I have
> > > > > one week
> > > > > to master it (!) before he
takes
> it
> > back to
> > > Germany. It
> > > > > is a well-made
> > > > > instrument, but everytime I
try
> to
> > play
> > > something, I
> > > > > can't help
> > > > > thinking I am in archlute
tuning.
> I
> > have some
> > > Gallot -
> > > > > but that is in a
> > > > > weird tuning requiring a
change
> of
> > strings, so
> > > will give
> > > > > it a miss. I
> > > > > also have some Granata, so I
hope
> to
> > record
> > > that before
> > > > > Saturday, maybe
> > > > > a video, we'll see.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rob
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To get on or off this list see
list
> > information
> > > at
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
[10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 3. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 4. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 5. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > 6. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 7. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 8. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 9. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > 10.
> >
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
> >
> > To get on or off this list see list information
at
> >
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
To get on or off this list see list information at
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