Dear Lex,
Just because the bass lines are simple does not require that they were
necessarily composed on the guitar as I think you are now suggesting.
And what may seem to us to be simple 'folk' harmonies may have been
precisely the effect they were aiming at - even when not a guitar
player. Indeed, as I've already pointed out, we need to be careful
before assuming that 'simple' songs means untutored tunes.
Now to turn to solo villanelle and the like you mention: are you now
suggesting that the melodies of these were generally created by someone
hearing a chord sequence and then inventing a melody to fit it. As
pointed out, said such a practice is clearly common with grounds but
what's the evidence that it was general practice for most light songs
such as those of Marini. A more believable hypothesis is that the tunes
were invented and harmonies and even alfabeto added later as I've
already explained.
Finally, what's the significance of the 'point of view of a theorbo
player'? - I thought you played both theorbo and guitar as I do
regards but slightly puzzled........
Martyn
--- On Thu, 21/4/11, eisen...@planet.nl <eisen...@planet.nl> wrote:
From: eisen...@planet.nl <eisen...@planet.nl>
Subject: RE: [VIHUELA] Re: Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>, "Vihuelalist"
<vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Thursday, 21 April, 2011, 14:16
> If I understand aright you suggest that the requirements of fixed
alfabeto chords frequently (usually?) dictated the harmonies Marini
and
Co felt able to write. I can't agree - I think the thesis that they
fitted tunes to alfabeto rather than the other way round is, if I
may
say, rather putting the cart before the horse.
That may seem so from the perspective of a theorbo player. But not for
the merry strummer.
Many of these newly composed songs (not always with Marini though) have
rather simple bass lines; they are (often) the simpler kind of pastoral
songs.
> Of course, well known
chordal sequences were (and continue to be) a rich seam to tap
for creating florid divisions both instrumental and vocal (D'India's
exquisite 'Piangono al pianger mio' set to the Romenesca is a good
example) but I don't think we're discussing this form here - rather
newly set songs (mainly in strophic form).
No, I didn't think of ostinato songs.
> Noting - that Marini wasn't overbothered at passing dissonances
(see
earlier) resulting from having to fit a limited set of chords to
melodies which presumably they'd have avoided if fitting a song to
the
generally available alfabeto chords;
Passing dissonances if played with a bass instrument and guitar
together? In accompniment with a guitar only, these are really
alternative harmonizations.
> that some songs don't have
alfabeto;
In other collections alfabeto is clearly added only to the 'piu
proprie.' Several composers (e.g. Obizzi, Rontani, Vitali and
Sabbatini) have made that distinction. Sometimes even stated with so
many words. The different treatment in Marini 1622 could have other
reasons.
> that some of the alfabeto is incomplete; that many composers
(the large majority surely) didn't actually play the guitar -
Composers of collections of solo villanelle and scherzi? How do you
know that?
best, Lex
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