Dear Monica, A similar thing occurs with the cittern parts of Richard Allison's _Psalmes of David in Meter_ (London, 1599). They would have been derived from the bass line, but it would have been an unfigured bass, so major/minor and 6/3-5/3 discrepancies would have been inevitable.
Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -----Original Message----- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Monica Hall Sent: 18 December 2011 12:37 To: Chris Despopoulos Cc: Vihuelalist Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]} > Monica, you're absolutely right that by definition it's not continuous > bass when playing derived harmonies in the alfabeto. I was only > supposing that the harmonies are derived from the bass, and informed by > practice of bajo continuo. In that sense, it's a realization of > something, at any rate. In theory the harmonies - at least in the printed books - are derived from the bass line but they are not informed by the practice of bajo continuo. In many cases whoever added the alfabeto has simply added these on the assumption that the note in the bass part is the root of the chord without taking into account the voice part which clearly indicates that a 6/3 chord is necessary rather than a 5/3. In some instances they add major chords when there should be minor ones. And they also ignore the basic rule - that when the bass rises a semitone - mi-fa - the note on mi should be a 6/3. Usually 4-3 suspensions are ignored. And following on what I've read by Craig > Russell, it's possible to imagine that the guitar, limits, quirks, and > all, contributed to the development of harmonic thinking in this way. I think it contributed in a different way. Guitarists themselves - rather than the editors who added the alfabeto to printed books - were aware that chords were derived from major and minor triads and the notes in the triad could be played in any order. They were also more aware of major and minor modality. Regards Monica __________________________________________________________________ > > From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> > To: Martyn Hodgson <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> > Cc: Vihuelalist <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Lex Eisenhardt > <eisenha...@planet.nl> > Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 7:32 AM > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to > earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]} > That is all perfectly clear - but has absolutely nothing to do with > playing > an alfabeto accompaniment - because the guitar is not going to try and > reproduce the bass part in any way. > You seem to be me to be confusing two unrelated sets of circumstances. > Monica > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Martyn Hodgson" <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> > To: "Lex Eisenhardt" <[2]eisenha...@planet.nl> > Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 11:47 AM > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to > earlier > question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]} > > > > Dear Lex, > > > > A particular commonly occurring situation requiring the bass line to > be > > realised on the theorbo higher than the upper melodic line is where > the > > tenor sings a notated e' (ie that on the lowest line of treble clef) > > but sounding an octave lower (ie the e in the bass clef) and the BC > > line has a low G# 6 (ie on bottom line of bass clef). If G natural > is > > also frequently required in the piece (as often found) then on > > a theorbo in A (with 6 fingered courses as most usual historically) > > there is no low G# and the player is obliged to take the bass an > octave > > higher - ie top space of the bass clef and thus higher than the > > singer's note. The situation is much the same where the tenor has a > d > > and the theorbo BC is obliged to take a f# in the bass. > > Other types of specific examples include Caccini's 'Reggami per > pieta' > > where the singer has a low F# which has to be played by the BC an > > octave higher since there are necessary low F naturals elsewhere in > the > > piece. > > > > Chromatic notes are solved in the same way: by putting odd notes (or > > even an entire passage) up an octave - see Ballard 'Methode pour > > apprendre.... theorbe' (1660) page 10 especially which gives > examples > > in staff notation and in tablature showing the necessary octave > > transposition for chromatic notes. > > > > rgds > > > > Martyn > > > > > > --- On Sat, 17/12/11, Lex Eisenhardt <[4]eisenha...@planet.nl> > wrote: > > > > From: Lex Eisenhardt <[5]eisenha...@planet.nl> > > Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: > Return > > to earlier question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]} > > To: "Monica Hall" <[6]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>, "Martyn Hodgson" > > <[7]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> > > Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[8]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > Date: Saturday, 17 December, 2011, 8:58 > > > > Dear Martyn, > > Is there evidence for raising the bass on the theorbo, to even above > > the > > other voices? I understand that chromatic notes in the bass can be a > > problem, but do we know how they solved that? > > Lex > > ps could you please stop sending the whole thread of the discussion > > together > > with your newest posts? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Martyn Hodgson" <[1][9]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> > > To: "Monica Hall" <[2][10]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> > > Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[3][11]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 9:46 AM > > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming as basso continuo {was: Return to > > earlier > > question: {was: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]} > > > > > > Thanks Monica, > > > > > > But I still don't see, and you don't explain, how other changes > > (such > > > as raising the bass an octave in a theorbo realisation) differs > > > substantially from doing the same sort of thing on the guitar > > > > > > As said, maybe we just have to agree to disagree...... > > > > > > rgds > > > > > > Martyn > > > > -- > > > > References > > > > 1. > > > http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk > > 2. > http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk > > 3. > http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk > 2. mailto:eisenha...@planet.nl > 3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu > 4. mailto:eisenha...@planet.nl > 5. mailto:eisenha...@planet.nl > 6. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk > 7. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk > 8. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu > 9. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk > 10. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk > 11. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >
