What would you do about it? No more talks at Lute or Guitar meetings, unless approved by the musicological authorities?
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Namens Martyn Hodgson Verzonden: woensdag 25 juni 2014 15:27 Aan: Jelma van Amersfoort CC: Monica Hall; Vihuelalist Onderwerp: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar Summit Thanks for this Jelma, However I really didn't suggest that ANY paper presented at the 'Summit' would always automatically transform speculation (or even mere personal assertion) into generally accepted fact, but that some speculation/assertion presented in the past has, indeed, been transformed into widely believed practice by some players. Without the possibility of critical appraisal (through being generally available) the same can happen to any of the pet theories floated at the 'Summit' or, indeed, any other such fora. Two striking examples will suffice: - the use of thumb-under on the lute which became de rigueur for decades (and still persists in some circles) and is only recently being seen as an appropriate technique mostly for certain early lute music; - the use of a high octave on the third course of the 5 course 'baroque' guitar - a practice for which there is no historical evidence. In short, whilst like you I welcome the 'integration of guitar research into mainstream musicology' I'm a bit less willing to accept thoeries which are not able to be subject to some sort of critical review/appraisal by being openly published or otherwise made available. This is not, of course, the case with the few articles in the recent guitar centred editions of Early Music, some of which you tell me first appeared at one of these 'Summits'. Martyn __________________________________________________________________ From: Jelma van Amersfoort <jel...@gmail.com> To: Martyn Hodgson <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>; Vihuelalist <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Wednesday, 25 June 2014, 10:18 Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar Summit I don't know, Martyn. Generally, any paper being presented at any conference or festival does not turn into generally accepted fact, does it? If there is such a thing as 'fact' in historical research :-) I certainly attend these things with a healthy dose of scepticism. However, I think the tentative integration of guitar research into mainstream musicology that we see happening these days is a good thing. Jelma On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 10:59 AM, Martyn Hodgson <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Well yes....... though if papers are presented, but not disseminated by the 'Summit' and/or are not peer reviewed is there not the problem (alas too common) of mere speculation being transformed into generally accepted fact? Martyn __________________________________________________________________ From: Monica Hall <[2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> To: "Braig, Eugene" <[3]brai...@osu.edu> Cc: Vihuelalist <[4]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Wednesday, 25 June 2014, 7:08 Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar Summit That sums it up very nicely. Both the list and the Lake Konstanz meeting were opportunities for guitar enthusiasts to get together to discuss their interests. No need for any peer reviewing or the like. Monica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Braig, Eugene" <[1][5]brai...@osu.edu> To: "Vihuela Dmth" <[2][6]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:01 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar Summit > The word " s u b s c r i b e r " ended up robot flagging my last note for > redirection. Here it is again with the offending word deleted. > > E > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Braig, Eugene > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 4:59 PM > To: Vihuela Dmth > Subject: RE: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar Summit > > I think more people are reading more into this thing than they should. > While many contributors coincide, the Lake Konstanz Guitar Research > Meeting operated independently of the Topica Guitar Summit. You can see a > concise summary of what the Lake Konstanz/Constance meeting is at the > bottom this GFA page: [3][7]http://www.guitarfoundation.org/?ArchForums . . . as > well as the organizers' own Facebook group: > [4][8]https://www.facebook.com/groups/131072740286508/. I've never managed to > attend the Lake Konstanz meeting in person. > > The "Guitar Summit" was a discussion forum (not unlike the present suite > of Dartmouth lute lists) that was hosted by Topica beginning in 2007. > However, it went through earlier incarnations hosted by a couple different > online services (most notably as the "Classical Guitar History List") that > slightly predate the first Lake Konstanz meeting. I have been a spotty > contributor to each iteration of the discussion fora/listservs since 2005. > When I was active there, there was a great deal of discussion centered on > transitional periods at either end of the 19th c. Yes, Matanya Ophee > served as an organizing hub for these listservs; his contributions to and > prominent voice in this particular arena are hard to deny, whatever your > opinion of them are. Still, at its core, the "summit" was really only a > listserv of guitar geeks (like me), scholars, and professional performers > who liked to ask interesting questions of a collective body of knowledge > (I tended to do more asking than ans! > wering). > > Best, > Eugene > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [5][9]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[6][10]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > Behalf Of jelmaa > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 12:43 PM > To: Martyn Hodgson > Cc: Vihuela Dmth > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar Summit > > Hi Martin and others, > > No, the papers are not peer reviewed and not published by the organizers, > but I know many of them end up in journals later through the efforts of > the individual researchers. A list of speakers and subjects is published > though (I believe). You should really contact Andreas about that if you > want to know more. > > Best, Jelma > > > On Jun 24, 2014, at 17:26 , Martyn Hodgson wrote: > >> Thank you Jelma. >> Do you know if this 'Summit' ever publish any of these papers or are >> they available as downloads? Were they peer reviewed? >> regards >> Martyn >> __________________________________________________________________ >> >> From: Jelma van Amersfoort <[7][11]jel...@gmail.com> >> To: Lex Eisenhardt <[8][12]eisenha...@planet.nl> >> Cc: Vihuela Dmth <[9][13]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> >> Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2014, 11:31 >> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar Summit >> Dear all, >> A >> "Lake Konstanz" is a bi-annual international conference on >> guitar-related research, historical and otherwise. It was established >> in 2007 by Gerhard Penn and Andreas Stevens.A The next meeting is in >> 2015. >> A >> I was there last year and presented a paper on guitar songs by the >> composer Pauline Duchambge (1776-1858). There were speakers from many >> different countries and backgrounds, it was quite interesting and >> fun. >> As Lex Eisenhardt mentioned, four or five of the people who recently >> published in Early Music were there as well, and Matanya Ophee too. >> A >> If any of you want to present or just listen it is best to approach >> Andreas or Gerhard with a proposal. They are quite keen to involve >> more >> researchers. I believe there is no website, but there is a rather >> active facebook page. >> ([1][1][10][14]https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/131072740286508/) >> A >> Best, Jelma van Amersfoort >> A >> A >> On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Lex Eisenhardt >> <[2][2][11][15]eisenha...@planet.nl> wrote: >> Some of you may have seen the 'guitar issues' of Early Music (41/4 >> A and >> 42/1). Some of the authors lectured at the 'Lake Konstanz' (Summit) >> meetings. >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: [3][3][12][16]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> [mailto:[4][4][13][17]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Namens >> WALSH STUART >> Verzonden: dinsdag 24 juni 2014 11:54 >> Aan: Martyn Hodgson; Vihuela Dmth >> Onderwerp: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar Summit >> On 24/06/2014 09:25, Martyn Hodgson wrote: >>> A A ----- Forwarded Message ----- >>> A A From: Martyn Hodgson <[5][5][14][18]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> A A >>> To: Monica Hall <[6][6][15][19]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> A A Sent: Tuesday, 24 >>> June 2014, 7:26 A A Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar Summit A A >>> Thanks for this. >>> A A I was intrigued by the use of the word 'summit' which implied >> some >> sort >>> A A of self-proclaimed central authority! >> I think that would be about right. Surrounded by worshippers. >>> But from what you write, it seems >>> A A to be/have been more of a social event.... >>> A A Martyn >>> A A A >> __________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> A A From: Monica Hall <[7][7][16][20]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> A A To: >>> Martyn Hodgson <[8][8][17][21]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> A A Cc: >>> Vihuelalist <[9][9][18][22]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> A A Sent: Monday, 23 >>> June 2014, 19:29 A A Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar Summit A A >>> Well it was started a few years ago under the auspices of >> Matanya >>> A A Ophee. >>> A A Most of the people on it were continental - i.e. from >> Germany, >> and >> such >>> A A like >>> A A places. A They hold/held a summit meeting in Switzerland >> every >> two >>> A A years. >>> A A The last one was in 2012 I think. >>> A A There used to be a discussion list but messages I have sent >> have not >>> A A got >>> A A through and I haven't received any for ages. >>> A A Monica >>> A A ----- Original Message ----- >>> A A From: "Martyn Hodgson" <[1][10][10][19][23]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> >>> A A To: "Monica Hall" <[2][11][11][20][24]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>; >> "Vihuelalist" >>> A A <[3][12][12][21][25]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> >>> A A Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 6:37 PM A A Subject: [VIHUELA] >>> Re: Guitar Summit A A > A To be frank Monica, I've never heard of >>> it! A What is/was >> it >> supposed >>> A A to >>> A A > A do? >>> A A > A Martyn >>> A A > >> __________________________________________________________________ >>> A A > >>> A A > A From: Monica Hall <[4][13][13][22][26]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> >>> A A > A To: Vihuelalist <[5][14][14][23][27]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> >>> A A > A Sent: Monday, 23 June 2014, 15:30 A A > A Subject: >>> [VIHUELA] Guitar Summit A A > A A I just wondered whether anyone >>> else on this list is on >> the Guitar >>> A A > A A Summit list and if so whether they ever get any >> messages. A I >>> A A haven't >>> A A > A A had any for months and was wondering whether it is >> defunct or >>> A A whether >>> A A > A I >>> A A > A A have been struck off! >>> A A > A A Thanks to all >>> A A > A A Monica >>> A A > A A -- >>> A A > A To get on or off this list see list information at A A > >> A >> [1][6][15][15][24][28]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/in dex.htm l >>> A A > >>> A A > A -- >>> A A > >>> A A > References >>> A A > >>> A A > A 1. >> [7][16][16][25][29]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index .html >>> A A > >>> >>> A A -- >>> >>> References >>> >>> A A 1. mailto:[17][17][26][30]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk >>> A A 2. mailto:[18][18][27][31]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >>> A A 3. mailto:[19][19][28][32]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> A A 4. mailto:[20][20][29][33]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >>> A A 5. mailto:[21][21][30][34]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> A A 6. >> [22][22][31][35]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.ht ml >>> A A 7. >> [23][23][32][36]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.ht ml >>> >>> >> --- >> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus >> protection is active. >> [24][24][33][37]http://www.avast.com >> -- >> References >> 1. [25][34][38]https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/131072740286508/ >> 2. mailto:[26][35][39]eisenha...@planet.nl >> 3. mailto:[27][36][40]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 4. mailto:[28][37][41]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 5. mailto:[29][38][42]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk >> 6. mailto:[30][39][43]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 7. mailto:[31][40][44]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 8. mailto:[32][41][45]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk >> 9. mailto:[33][42][46]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 10. mailto:[34][43][47]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk >> 11. mailto:[35][44][48]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 12. mailto:[36][45][49]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 13. mailto:[37][46][50]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 14. mailto:[38][47][51]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 15. [39][48][52]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 16. [40][49][53]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 17. mailto:[41][50][54]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk >> 18. mailto:[42][51][55]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 19. mailto:[43][52][56]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 20. mailto:[44][53][57]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 21. mailto:[45][54][58]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 22. [46][55][59]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 23. [47][56][60]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 24. [48][57][61]http://www.avast.com/ >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> 1. [58][62]https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/131072740286508/ >> 2. mailto:[59][63]eisenha...@planet.nl >> 3. mailto:[60][64]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 4. mailto:[61][65]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 5. mailto:[62][66]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk >> 6. mailto:[63][67]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 7. mailto:[64][68]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 8. mailto:[65][69]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk >> 9. mailto:[66][70]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 10. mailto:[67][71]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk >> 11. mailto:[68][72]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 12. mailto:[69][73]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 13. mailto:[70][74]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 14. mailto:[71][75]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 15. [72][76]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 16. [73][77]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 17. mailto:[74][78]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk >> 18. mailto:[75][79]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 19. mailto:[76][80]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 20. mailto:[77][81]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 21. mailto:[78][82]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 22. [79][83]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 23. [80][84]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 24. [81][85]http://www.avast.com/ >> 25. [82][86]https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/131072740286508/ >> 26. mailto:[83][87]eisenha...@planet.nl >> 27. mailto:[84][88]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 28. mailto:[85][89]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 29. mailto:[86][90]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk >> 30. mailto:[87][91]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 31. mailto:[88][92]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 32. mailto:[89][93]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk >> 33. mailto:[90][94]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 34. mailto:[91][95]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk >> 35. mailto:[92][96]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 36. mailto:[93][97]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 37. mailto:[94][98]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 38. mailto:[95][99]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 39. [96][100]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 40. [97][101]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 41. mailto:[98][102]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk >> 42. mailto:[99][103]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 43. mailto:[100][104]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 44. mailto:[101][105]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk >> 45. mailto:[102][106]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >> 46. [103][107]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 47. [104][108]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 48. [105][109]http://www.avast.com/ >> > > > > > > > -- References 1. mailto:[110]brai...@osu.edu 2. mailto:[111]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. [112]http://www.guitarfoundation.org/?ArchForums 4. [113]https://www.facebook.com/groups/131072740286508/ 5. mailto:[114]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. mailto:[115]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. mailto:[116]jel...@gmail.com 8. mailto:[117]eisenha...@planet.nl 9. mailto:[118]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 10. [119]https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/131072740286508/ 11. mailto:[120]eisenha...@planet.nl 12. mailto:[121]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 13. mailto:[122]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 14. mailto:[123]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 15. mailto:[124]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 16. mailto:[125]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 17. mailto:[126]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 18. mailto:[127]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 19. mailto:[128]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 20. mailto:[129]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 21. mailto:[130]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 22. mailto:[131]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 23. mailto:[132]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 24. [133]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 25. [134]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 26. mailto:[135]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 27. mailto:[136]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 28. mailto:[137]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 29. mailto:[138]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 30. mailto:[139]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 31. [140]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 32. [141]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 33. [142]http://www.avast.com/ 34. [143]https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/131072740286508/ 35. mailto:[144]eisenha...@planet.nl 36. mailto:[145]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 37. mailto:[146]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 38. mailto:[147]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 39. mailto:[148]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 40. mailto:[149]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 41. mailto:[150]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 42. mailto:[151]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 43. mailto:[152]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 44. mailto:[153]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 45. mailto:[154]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 46. mailto:[155]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 47. mailto:[156]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 48. [157]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 49. [158]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 50. mailto:[159]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 51. mailto:[160]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 52. mailto:[161]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 53. mailto:[162]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 54. mailto:[163]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 55. [164]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 56. [165]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 57. [166]http://www.avast.com/ 58. [167]https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/131072740286508/ 59. mailto:[168]eisenha...@planet.nl 60. mailto:[169]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 61. mailto:[170]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 62. mailto:[171]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 63. mailto:[172]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 64. mailto:[173]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 65. mailto:[174]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 66. mailto:[175]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 67. mailto:[176]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 68. mailto:[177]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 69. mailto:[178]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 70. mailto:[179]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 71. mailto:[180]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 72. [181]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 73. [182]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 74. mailto:[183]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 75. mailto:[184]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 76. mailto:[185]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 77. mailto:[186]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 78. mailto:[187]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 79. [188]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 80. 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