Nikolay Pavlov wrote: > 2017-11-06 23:33 GMT+03:00 Bram Moolenaar <b...@moolenaar.net>: > > > > Scott Court wrote: > > > >> Those are very valid points, and I agree that the way Neovim handles > >> .swp files is better. I've already explained on here and on Openwall > >> numerous reasons why I believe that is the best solution and made the > >> case that .swp files should be stored in ~/.vim/swap by default. However > >> Bram has veto power and shot that idea down. > >> > >> So instead I'm trying to find the next best way to address this. > >> /var/lib being writable only by root and therefore requiring cooperation > >> from packagers did not occur to me, but that's definitely a problem. > >> Maybe it would be doable as a major change in the next major release of > >> Vim, but you're right; that definitely won't work as a security patch. > >> So much for that idea. > >> > >> I maintain a Linux Distribution (Cucumber Linux) and have already > >> adopted the Neovim style ~/.vim/swap approach on there. Maybe we'll just > >> have to hope that other distributions independently start doing > >> something similar, as Bram seems pretty convinced this problem is > >> completely a user error and has nothing to do with the way Vim works; > >> he's also pretty set on not changing the default .swp location. > > > > There are a few situations you need to consider: > > - Removable media, editing a file on a USB stick. > > - Remote file systems (where the mount point may change over time). > > - Multiple users editing a shared file. > > - Renaming directories. > > > > There are likely many more > > - Remote file systems is a case *against* using swap files in the > current directory, should they be slow Vim starts being unresponsive > when it does something with swap file.
I don't get this. I use remote file systems all the time, from different systems. Having the swap file in the same directory has saved my work quite a number of times. Sudden disconnects are the main thing, having to go to the file from a different system and use "vim -r". That is impossible if the swap file is on a system that became unreachable. If the original file becomes unreachable you can't do anything anyway. On top of that, having the warning that a swap file exists, meaning you already changed the file from another system, also often is a life saver. Happens for me quite often when working on a test that fails on MS-Windows. > - Removable media is a case against swap files as well: while nowadays > you are unlikely to exhaust write cycles or cause unresponsiveness by > using swap files there, there are still considerations like > > 1. Whether “user saved and removed the media without properly > closing the editor or wiping out buffer” is less common scenario then > “user removed the media without …, but did not save and now wants to > restore on another machine”. Swap files there are welcome only if > second scenario is more common, but there is a second point as well. That's exactly what happens: you edit a file on a USB stick, do something else, have to catch a train, close the laptop without saving, take the stick elsewhere, and now your swap file is on a system at home while you are at work... > 2. Removable media is also commonly used for sharing not between > computers belonging to one user, but between computers belonging to > different users. Swap files would be nothing other then annoying > garbage when shared with a user not using *Vim and either using > Windows (i.e. OS which does not hide dotfiles) or having his file > manager configured to show hidden files. Also if files with swap files > nearby were edited on such a machine trying to restore something from > them will do more harm then good. That does not match my experience, sounds uncommon to me. > - Swap files are utterly useless for preventing editing a single file > by multiple users: way too many conditions need to be true for that to > work: users need to both use *Vim, users need to both have configured > to save swap files in the current directory, users need to pay > attention and not discard the message thinking e.g. that it was an > artifact from previous disconnect. It works very well for me. In multi-user setups it does get more tricky, but using your personal store for swap files isn't going to be an improvement in any way. The only situation I'm aware of is when the swap file gets picked up by a tool in an unwanted way. E.g. when creating an archive from a directory or a version control system that isn't setup to ignore swap files. In that case you want to set 'directory', that's what it is for. > Also Vim does not provide any way to do anything sensible with the > situation “two users simultaneously edit the same file”. False > positives and negatives do not make the situation better as well: > neither Vim checks whether currently running process with PID stored > in swap file has anything to do with the creator of swap files, nor > there is any way to determine whether simultaneous editing actually > happens in “remote file system with access from different machines” > and “access from same machine, but separated via various means like > PID namespaces” cases. Enough false alarms and users will stop caring > about them. Does not match my experience. Two different users editing the same file is very uncommon anyway. In most cases it's the same person working from different accounts. > - Yet another case *against* the idea of `set directory=.`: consider > the simple script which simulates renaming directory without closing > the file: > > mkdir test-br.d > #vim -u NONE -i NONE -N \ > # test-br.d/file \ > # -c write -c '!mv test-br.d test-ar.d' \ > # -c 'file test-ar.d/file' \ > vim -u NONE -i NONE -N \ > test-br.d/file \ > -c write \ > -c '!mv test-br.d test-ar.d' \ > -c 'bw' \ > -c 'edit test-ar.d/file' > > What will you see in both commented and uncommented cases? Right, > E325: ATTENTION! Is there any value in seeing it? No, file was already > saved, PID belongs to the same Vim instance, but, unfortunately, you > can’t delete that swap file from Vim menu for Vim process being > “already running”. But should you have > > rm -rf test-br?.d > mkdir test-br.d > mkdir test-swap.d > vim -u NONE -i NONE -N \ > --cmd 'let &directory=getcwd()."/test-swap.d//"' \ > test-br.d/file \ > -c write \ > -c '!mv test-br.d test-ar.d' \ > -c 'bw' \ > -c 'edit test-ar.d/file' > > and Vim automatically and correctly deletes the no-longer-needed > swap file attached to the previous location of the file. Yeah, I've been thinking of a way to delete the swap file automatically, without the risk of deleting it when it's still needed. Work to be done. BTW: this is independent of what 'directory' is set to, the swap file will always refer to the original location. -- The most powerful force in the universe is gossip. /// Bram Moolenaar -- b...@moolenaar.net -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\ /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\ \\\ an exciting new programming language -- http://www.Zimbu.org /// \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org /// -- -- You received this message from the "vim_dev" maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "vim_dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to vim_dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
