like I said, it was slipped in. There was apparently some behind the scenes deal making that involved one or more of the blindness orgs and the US Justice Dept. They figured that it would be an opportune time to get MS to make their OS a bit more accessible. SInce the primary action was an anti-trust lawsuit, the secondary action was not widely published.
On Jul 24, 2015, at 8:48 PM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: > I don't understand. How does Microsoft not including their browser in Windows > have anything to do with helping ensure applications are accessible? The > iPhone is a more closed system then Windows has ever been, but I don't see > this as having anyting to do with this argument, other than a 3rd party > screen reader has never been an option on an iPhone. > > I agree Apple is doing a great job including accessibility in their products, > but if we're talking about history, this hasn't always been the case. I was > using a smart phone with a screen reader five years before the iPhone was > accessible. I've been using a PC non-stop since 1988, and I don't think that > could be said about the Mac. > > I also don't see how Microsoft's wealth and the number of lawyers they have > on retainer has anything to do with this argument. Apple is wealthier than > Microsoft, has their own set of lawyers and has been using lawyers to > protect themselves and their intellectual property longer than Microsoft. > > I'm sure I'm seen as a Microsoft defender, but I just don't see how > misleading statements about another company furthers this argument at all. > Apple, although not perfect, is getting a lot of things right. Microsoft > definitely has a ways to go, but I just don't think it's true that the only > thing Microsoft has done to improve the accessibility of it's platforms and > applications is the result of law suits. Narrator has improved in recent > versions of Windows, Windows Phone is now accessible, Microsoft contributes > to organizations establishing accessibility standards, and I don't think any > of this is just because they lost some law suit recently. > > On 07/24/2015 02:47 PM, Eric Oyen wrote: >> the last time this actually happened, it was part of the Anti-trust lawsuit >> that forced MS to quit favoring their browser over others. It was slipped in >> as part of the settlement conditions. >> >> btw, Apple was not the first organization to actually go with accessibility >> out of the box. THere were 3 Linux Distributions that were already setup to >> do this as early as 1998. Redhat Linux was one of the first, right along >> with Knoppix (a debian dvd live disk). However, apple was the first to >> realize that they needed a standard interface across all their products. >> Since voiceover got its start as part of the audio menu for the iPod Nano, >> it was decided that this would make a good audio interface for their other >> devices. Not only did it work for us, but it made apple the first to create >> a commercial product that had accessibility built in and ready to use (and >> at no extra cost). I can't say that for my old windows smart phone (which I >> had to pay upwards of $400 just to purchase the mobile speak package) and >> Android just wasn't accessible until the later Android versions. Even then, >> it still requires some sighted assistance to get the package installed >> (Windows smart phone) or turne > d on (android). WIth the iPhone, you can plug it in to a machine, turn on > iTunes and go into the device settings menu to turn it on (or hit the home > key 3 times). How much easier is it than that? >> >> -eric >> >> On Jul 24, 2015, at 5:03 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: >> >>> I'm not sure what's being referred to here, but I am sure Microsoft has >>> worked on and delivered accessibility improvements recently without losing >>> a law suit to make it happen. I'm not defending Microsoft, they could >>> definitely do a better job, but inaccurate and exaggerated statements like >>> this just undermine the points that need to be made. >>> >>> On 07/23/2015 09:37 PM, Eric Oyen wrote: >>>> does Microsoft do any better??? Honestly, the answer is no. The last time >>>> we got anything out of MS, it required a lawsuit. They are still a $45 >>>> Billion Dollar monster with lots of lawyers. Still, if enough of us can >>>> start bugging the software developers who make apps for MS (and OS X, iOS, >>>> Android and others), the more likely it is that something will get done. >>>> >>>> -eric >>>> >>>> On Jul 23, 2015, at 6:37 PM, Andy Baracco wrote: >>>> >>>>> Does Microsoft do any better? >>>>> >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> From: Mike Hingson >>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 12:30 PM >>>>> To: VIPhone >>>>> Cc: csma...@cogeco.ca >>>>> Subject: Re: App Accessibility and the ADA >>>>> While some apps may be graphic by nature their controls need not be >>>>> inaccessible to blind persons. I believe Apple has not totally lived up >>>>> to its responsibility to insure as miuch app accessibility as it could. >>>>> Leaving this up to the developers is unrealistic and will ALWAYS keep us >>>>> behind the accessible curve. >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 7:39:08 AM UTC-7, Chris Smart wrote: >>>>> I'm not a US citizen, so forgive me if this question is ignorant. >>>>> Does the ADA or any other US law compel app and other software developers >>>>> to make their products accessible? I know the ADA applies to buildings >>>>> and such, but what about software? >>>>> >>>>> I'm considering filing a report with the Better Business Bureau in the >>>>> case of one company, mostly to get their full attention. Obviously I'd >>>>> like to site any relevant legal frameworks if there are any. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for any info, >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> --- Learn to meditate and train your brain with Muse, the first lab-grade >>>>> EEG biofeedback headband for home use! >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>>>> list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >>>>> have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you >>>>> feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >>>>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives >>>>> for this list can be searched at >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> I'm not wearing a diaper, so don't try to change me. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>>>> list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >>>>> have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you >>>>> feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >>>>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives >>>>> for this list can be searched at >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Christopher (CJ) >>> chaltain at Gmail >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. >>> All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any >>> questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a >>> member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators >>> directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list >>> can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > Christopher (CJ) > chaltain at Gmail > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. 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