Christopher, I agree with your comments. My original point was that PDF files shouldn't all be considered images since a variety of ways exist to create them. I'm not even sure that scanning documents produces the majority of PDF files since various formats can be used to save the resulting image if OCR isn't performed on it. I do agree that OCR processing can be an inexact science which introduces errors which is why I strive to get those providing documents to me to do so in their original electronic formats instead of giving me paper.
Alan Lemly -----Original Message----- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2016 11:10 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Readable PDF Files was RE: Unacceptable Response from Issuu Support Team Regarding VoiceOver Accessibility Well, I actually think we're saying the same thing. Scanning a document, no matter where you are in the process, is not the same thing as getting access to the underlying text. IMHO, using OCR to convert images into text is not the same thing as making a document like a PDF accessible. Errors in OCR can be introduced. For example, I just had to take a contract management certification test, and one of the classes only provided me with a PDF that was a scanned image. Even though the OCR was reasonably good, there were still errors. I don't want to miss a question on a test because I used the wrong acronym due to an OCR error. Also, using OCR on a scanned image doesn't give you access to underlying document elements, such as form fields, alternate text for images, table mark-ups, links and so on. I definitely don't consider the OCR of a scanned image to be on par with a PDF created from some desktop publishing software where I have access to the underlying text and the associated mark up. On 20/02/16 01:02, Alan Lemly wrote: > I'm not sure I agree. I scan pages all the time and using OmniPage, can elect > to run them through OCR and then save them as editable PDFs. Granted, > software processing is required to do this but it's not desktop publishing > software. My original point was that it's not accurate to call all PDF files > images which can't be read by screen readers because that certainly isn't the > case. I believe it's fairly easy to print web pages or other program output > to PDF files provided you have the necessary utilities to do so and those PDF > files contain readable text. > > Alan Lemly > > -----Original Message----- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain > Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 10:36 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Readable PDF Files was RE: Unacceptable Response from > Issuu Support Team Regarding VoiceOver Accessibility > > It isn't always just up to the creator of a PDF file to determine whether an > image is being used or the underlying text is available to Adobe. That's true > if the author is using desktop publishing software to create a document and > is saving it in a PDF format. However, if you only have a hard copy of a > document and you're going to scan it, which you often have to do when > capturing a signature, then the creator of the PDF doesn't have a choice. > > On 19/02/16 14:58, Alan Seemly wrote: >> Alan, >> >> I'd like to correct your statement that "PDF is actually a picture of >> the document and no screen reader can read a picture to you." While >> it's true that screen readers can't read images or pictures, PDF >> files can most certainly be saved in either an editable or searchable >> format so that their text is preserved and readable by a screen >> reader. Not all PDF files are images but it is up to the creator of >> them to decide whether they contain text that can be read or searched >> electronically. >> >> Alan Lemly >> >> *From:*viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On >> Behalf Of *Alan Paganelli >> *Sent:* Friday, February 19, 2016 10:18 AM >> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: Unacceptable Response from Issuu Support Team >> Regarding VoiceOver Accessibility >> >> I went through this with iPhone Life. They were very nice folks who >> took the time to explain to me that the reason why they use PDF is so >> the magazine in PDF format looks exactly like the print magazine. >> PDF is actually a picture of the document and no screen reader can >> read a picture to you. >> >> HTH >> >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad Air >> >> >> On Feb 19, 2016, at 7:31 AM, Christine Grassman >> <cgrassman1...@gmail.com <mailto:cgrassman1...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Dear All: >> >> Issuu is an app which provides access to millions of magazines, >> newsletters, etc., on virtually any topic you can think of. My son, >> who is also a VoiceOver user, wanted to access his high school s >> newspaper which is on the platform. However, it is in an image pdf. >> Furthermore, trying to get around the app is nightmarish, and it >> does not appear that any of the available resources is accessible. >> >> I wrote to their support center, and this is the response I >> received. My response to that unhelpful response is first, with the >> response in the middle, with my original message at the bottom. I >> think this is absolutely something which should be available to >> those who use screen readers. If others agree, I think we should >> bombard them with requests to make their platform accessible. >> >> Christine >> >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> *From: *"Christine Grassman (issuu Support Team)" >> <feedb...@issuu.com <mailto:feedb...@issuu.com>> >> >> *Subject: Update from issuu Support Re: Poor VoiceOver >> accessibility* >> >> *Date: *February 19, 2016 at 10:16:27 AM EST >> >> *To: *Christine Grassman <cgrassman1...@gmail.com >> <mailto:cgrassman1...@gmail.com>> >> >> *Reply-To: *issuu Support Team <feedb...@issuu.com >> <mailto:feedb...@issuu.com>> >> >> ## Please do not write below this line ## >> >> Christine >> >> >> >> *Christine Grassman* >> >> Feb 19, 16:16 >> >> With all due respect, there is no excuse for this. Apple makes >> available to developers, free of charge, guidelines for making apps >> accessible. There's absolutely no reason not to do this. >> Christine >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> Angel >> >> >> >> *Angel*(Help Center) >> >> Feb 19, 11:51 >> >> Hi Christine, >> >> Unfortunately we don't have a way for those with visual impairments >> to use screen reading technology or have a way to make our site >> accessible at this time. We also haven't been informed of any plans >> to add that functionality any time soon. I'm so very sorry about that. >> >> If we do introduce this functionality at any point, we will put up >> an announcement on our blog (blog.issuu.com >> <http://blog.issuu.com/>) and on our help center (help.issuu.com >> <http://help.issuu.com/>), so please do keep checking these places >> for updates. >> >> Please don't hesitate to write back if you have any other questions, >> and we'd be happy to assist you. >> >> Best regards, >> Angel >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> -- >> >> issuu is oniOS <http://bit.ly/issuuonios>andAndroid >> <http://bit.ly/IssuuOnAndroid>. >> >> To learn more about issuu, please visit ourHelp Center >> <http://help.issuu.com/hc/en-us>. >> >> Christine >> >> >> >> *Christine Grassman* >> >> Feb 15, 22:42 >> >> I am blind, as are my children. We use iPhones with VoiceOver >> accessibility to access text. I am deeply disappointed that Issuu is >> not voiceover accessible. Only some features are accessible, and one >> cannot find and read magazines. In this day and age, this is >> unacceptable. Information should be accessible to us just as to others. >> There is no reason why the text of your millions of publications >> should not be accessible using a screen reader. I hope that you will >> address this as quickly as possible. >> Christine Grassman >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> This email is a service from Help Center. 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