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----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 8:57
AM
Subject: Episode 2: Joy of
discussion
Did it ever occur to anyone here that the Grand Canyon is shaped entirely wrong for a geological feature that
is millions of years old, that the outer canyon walls are too steep, and the
debris field is too small? If the canyon was formed over millions of
years, the seasonal changes with countless freezing and thawing cycles should
have fractured and collapsed all vertical walls on a continuous basis so that
the canyon would be a large V shaped valley composed of rock rubble at
approximately 45 degree angle of repose.
Canyon De Chelly, 150 mi east of the Grand Canyon is an even
more extreme example of this delema. Sheer vertical walls extend from
top to bottom with no rubble whatsoever. The stream that runs through it
can be crossed on foot without getting your ankles wet. De Chelly can barely
be thousands of years old.
I have been to the base of El Capitan in Yosemite; the
rubble at its base is unimpressive in size. The rubble at the base of
Devil Tower likewise seems insufficient for a millions year old geologic
feature.
On July 13 1993 my wife and I were at Capital Reefs national
park. We were in a vertical walled canyon near the trail head to Cassidy
Arch. It was nearing sunset and windy.
We had back packs and intended to climb to Cassidy Arch and
spend the night. While contemplating the wisdom of this idea, I was
staring at the far canyon wall. Suddenly, tons of the canyon ledge fell
away right before my eyes! Half way down, the rock fall struck the
canyon wall, shattering into a rain of fragments, and leaving a white mark on
the wall. As I scanned the far wall I noticed numerous white marks. Yet.
the rubble field was not of impressive size.
If the canyon in Capital Reef is another Millions year old
feature, what is the chance that I would see a major rock fall during my 2
minutes of contemplation? We decided to spend our 25th wedding
anniversary in a motel.
When I was a kid a local business backfilled an area to
extend a parking lot. They used ash from a coal fired power station to
fill the area to over 10 ft deep. At some time later a 15 minute thunder
storm cut a 8 ft deep canyon through the semistable ash. I walked
through the canyon an hour later. It was astounding! All of the
features that make the Grand Canyon instantly recognizable to anybody were
laid out before my eyes in miniature with walls as high as I could
reach.
When Mt St Helen exploded it generated a flood of mud and
ash that formed a canyon system out of the Touttle river basin complete with
vertical walls of visibly layered rock all formed from mud and ash. If
you were to blind fold a geologist and transport him to the
Touttle canyon he would never guess that he was inspecting a geologic feature
only 25 years old.
This Vortex-L group knows better than anyone that a
reputable scientist can loose a lucrative career by publically believing
CF to be possible. How much more a geologist or paleontologist who gives
credence to young earth evidence! How many important discoveries and
artifacts have been destroyed, reburied, or "filed" into oblivion in the
basement of some museum to perpetuate the old earth dogma, but primarily to
protect ones paycheck? We of all people know it must be happening.
I'm just getting started, but I will quit for now.
Richard is right. Let's cut the bull and get to some real
science.
Jeff Fink P.E.
Answer for Wyley..I came from the old days when
dinasaurs were made into crude petroleum beneath the earth.. everyone accepted
the fact back then.. well.. err.. that is until I saw the Grand Canyon and
read the plaque provided by the US Park Service that stated it took umpeen
million years for the river to carve a canyon 20 miles wide and a mile deep.
From there I traveled to White Sands to read another plaque stating ...the
sands were millions of years old and traveled x inches per year and the
sands had drifted 40 miles after the gypsum had leached from the
adjacent mountain.
Hmmm... I was viewing a giant hourglass,,,
inches per year times miles roughly equaled 6000 to 12000 years,, not millions
of years. Meanwhile , back at the ranch, my experience with liquids contol
systems and cavitation gave me pause when attempting to reconcile a cavitation
cut 20 miles wide and a mile deep in just under.. say 120 millions years. A
few years ago the Hoover Dam bypass valves were opened against warnings by
people that know better. The damage done in a few hours
by cavitation demonstrated how to cut concrete pipe without using a saw
or spend 30 million years to wear it down.
A rather long way around to answering your
inquiry about earth expansion. Imagine the depth and volume of water
required to produce cavitation sufficent to cut the Grand Canyon and toss in
the Hudson River Canyon etc in a years time. I am not an earth scientist but I
think its time to stop the dinasaur stuff about crude oil and let
science be pursued.
Richard
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