Hi Jed, The kilns I have been near are smaller ones for ceramic crafts and artwork, but I wonder if something like this can be applicable.
https://www.vpbay.com/product/pellet-burner-kiln/ I'm far from knowledgable about industrial applications but I guess it's not so simple to match a boiler to this kind of device especially if it's different temperature ranges, but it shows the kind of thing that is possible. > On 14 mei 2016, at 19:11, Stephen Cooke <stephen_coo...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Jed, > > thanks for your extended reply, I'm also far from being able todo the HVAC > calculations so respect you have an experts input and are better informed > than me about what is possible. > > Thanks also for the link rsbiomass. > > To be fair the pictures of the Bosch plant I think we're for 38 MW or 19 MW > plants, so a little bit bigger than 1MW ;) I guess it also has to vent its > fuel exhaust somehow. > > Of course these kind of boilers also include volume for the fuel burning, I > suppose the most comparable ones for LENR would be electrical. > > I think there are better comparisons in the viessmann link which have smaller > boilers with different fuel including some close to 1MW. > > I take you points about ventilation I'm also a little surprised we don't see > much, but am not enough of an expert to comment. I know electrical kilns I > have been near have been sometimes well insulated outside unless opened some > times other kilns I have been near not so much insulated but I suppose they > were not any where near the 1MW so it's difficult for me to compare. > > Were the industrial heaters you were with before operating at higher > temperatures than 120 degC? > > For further information about boilers that I think is interesting in the > context, here are a couple more links. > > http://www.cleaver-brooks.com/Reference-Center/Resource-Library/Webinars/2014-Webinars/Boiler-Basics--Design-and-Application-Differences.aspx > > http://www.nationalboiler.com/blog/industrial-boilers/4-ways-to-classify-types-of-industrial-boilers/ > > I agree the application is a puzzle, I'm curious to find out what it is some > day. > > Thanks again for your earlier clarifications > >> On 14 mei 2016, at 18:30, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Stephen Cooke <stephen_coo...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Jed, I wonder if I'm missing something? You said a the 1 MW ecat plant >>> would cook people in the warehouse? I'm for sure no boiler expert but I >>> have recently checked on line and if we look at other boilers with other >>> heat sources it seems that steam boilers of MW size are rather typical for >>> industrial applications and are often accommodated in warehouses. The sizes >>> also seem to me to be comparable to the e-cat. >> >> I think the e-cat is smaller than the boilers you showed in the linked >> document. It is a lot smaller than this 1 MW boiler as well: >> >> http://rsbiomass.com/products/urbas-biomass-plant/biomass-boiler-plant/ >> >> The smaller the unit, the more intense the heat inside the shipping >> container. >> >> Regarding this analysis, I am not capable of doing it either. This is what I >> heard from an HVAC engineer who examined the photos of the reactor and the >> warehouse. I cannot describe this in detail, because the analysis is over my >> head, and I do not have the exact numbers. Here is the gist of it: >> >> In a factory using this much process heat, you need large ventilation >> equipment, which is not in evidence. Without that, the room would overheat >> enough to kill the occupants. >> >> A typical use of process heat is for a dry cleaning shop, which uses 10 kW. >> So this is enough heat to operate 100 dry cleaning machines, which is far >> more equipment than you can fit into this building. There are factories with >> 100 times bigger equipment than a dry cleaning shop has, such as carpet >> mills, but those factories are big! >> >> The inside of the shipping container would be like an oven, even with the >> doors wide open. I believe Rossi claims he spent hours inside it. The >> individual generators are wrapped in insulation, but there would still be >> hundreds of kilowatts of waste heat from them. It cannot all transfer to the >> water. Standing inside it would be like sitting on top of a conventional gas >> or electrically fired 1 MW heater, like the one you pointed to here: >> >> http://www.bosch-industrial.com/files/BR_IndustrialBoiler_Beginners_en.pdf >> >> I have been within 10 feet of an 80 kW industrial heater in a factory. You >> cannot get any closer than that. It is like standing next to an open fire. >> If you were thrown against it or held above it, you would be scalded to >> death in no time. >> >> I do not think 1 MW is possible. These considerations reduce the possible >> amount of excess heat, but they do not rule out excess heat. As I recall the >> contract called for 6 times input. This is still plausible, I suppose. >> However, the analysis of data by I.H. and by me (with a smaller dataset) >> rule that out for other reasons. >> >> >>> I didn't get the impression from those sites that they are too hot for the >>> warehouse. >> >> I have been in factories and in ship engine rooms with equipment on this >> scale. The spaces are much larger, or in the case of the engine rooms, the >> ventilation equipment is huge. >> >> Also, operating industrial equipment that uses this much heat makes a lot of >> noise and commotion. I am sure that warehouse is not zoned for anything like >> 100 dry cleaning machines or a carpet mill. >> >> Finally, here is a reality check. Rossi's customer is a listed as a chemical >> distribution warehouse. Do you think a chemical distributor can use enough >> process heat for a good-sized factory? I doubt it! This is implausible, to >> say the least. >> >> - Jed >>
