Temporary energy, which you can retrieve once but have to expend entirely to be able to retrieve it once more. Well, we seem to agree entirely after all. No overunity on a full cycle can be got from the fundamental forces. No PMMs of the first kind can work.
As to the origin of this one time energy, it's known IMHO, it's the work performed by the fundamental force, like when you push your car the KE of the car is equal to the work of your pushing force, what else? So the real mystery is the fundamental force which does the work in fact, whether gravitational, electric or magnetic. Now maybe there are ways to pump a lot of energy on a one time basis, e.g. by emptying the oceans slowly into a black hole via a turbine? Wouldn't qualify as renewable of course, but the sun's energy is not really renewable either :) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Energy *Violations* using *standard* physics > Michel Jullian wrote: > > Well I am surprised, I thought you were expecting free energy from > such setups. > > > As I've stated many times before, it's *temporary* energy, unless the > two atoms annihilate. What is unknown according to standard model is > where the energy comes from. In the case of two magnets, calling such > energy PE is merely saying, "We don't know where such energy is > stored." Is it stored directly inside the electron in 3-dimensions, > 4-dimensions, 5-dimensions, or perhaps spread out in 4-dimensions, etc. > etc.? > > > > > > If the equations remain the same we are going to find a net energy > gain per cycle E-E' of zero, aren't we? > > > It depends on the situation. I believe energy is always conserved, but > you can indeed rob some of that energy from the two iron atoms. For > example, consider two separated iron atoms. The two iron atoms > accelerate toward each other mostly due to their magnetic attraction. > Such KE is stored in a battery. This results in energy stored in our > battery, but to repeat the process the two iron atoms must be > separated. That's why I call it temporary energy. Such gained energy > is real, but you must give up the energy if you separate the two iron > atoms. Of course it's possible ambient temperature could separate the > two iron atoms for you. :-) > > On the other hand, if one of the iron atoms were made of anti-matter > then the two atoms would annihilate. Therefore you could ***keep*** > then energy saved in the battery as gained from KE. :-) > > > > Regards, > Paul Lowrance > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul > > To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:02 AM > > Subject: Re: [Vo]: Energy *Violations* using *standard* physics > > > > > >> Michel Jullian wrote: > >>> I suppose that's one way to look at it. Does this > >> allow you to find E - E' ? > >> > >> > >> The equations remain the same. I'm merely suggesting > >> what we call PE is an existing form > >> of energy. Such PE could exist as electric field in > >> the case of charge, or magnetic field > >> in the case of the magnetic dipole moment, or gravity > >> field in the case of mass. > >> > >> > >> Regards, > >> Paul Lowrance > >> > >> > >> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: Paul > >>> To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:14 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [Vo]: Energy *Violations* using > >> *standard* physics > >>> > >>>> Michel Jullian wrote: > >>>>> Ok, electric then. Can you draw energy more than > >>>> once from the coulombic attraction of > >>>> a charged body of say +1 coulomb accelerating > >> towards > >>>> a fixed equal and opposite charge? I > >>>> mean for example: > >>>>> - How much energy E do you retrieve by releasing > >> it > >>>> from 1m away and stopping it 1cm > >>>> away? (say converting 100% of it's KE to heat) > >>>>> - Which energy E' must you expend to bring it > >> back > >>>> 1m away so you can retrieve E again > >>>> from the system? > >>>>> - What's the net energy E - E' pumped per cycle? > >>>>> > >>>>> Michel > >>>> > >>>> It's the same as an electro-magnetic in that > >> energy is > >>>> moved. Two oppositely charge and > >>>> attracted objects accelerating toward each other > >>>> cancel each others E-field. So the > >>>> E-field energy is moved to KE. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Paul Lowrance >
