Hi Bob,
No time to answer at length now, but will later this eve...
My initial thought is that even a semiconductor is not what I would call
a coherent system...
Perhaps the junction is, but I would need more details to determine if
that is so.
RE: your statement that,
"If one electron leaves the system, all change their energy at the same
time, responding instantaneously."
What exactly is their definition of 'instantaneously"???
Has this been definitively established with a resolution of 10^-15
seconds???
I seriously doubt it...
-Mark
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:43 AM, Bob Cook wrote:
Mark--
I have an additional question for you regarding your definition of
coherent regarding a semi-conductor.
Semi- conductors depend upon electrons that flow in the semi-conductor
to respond to voltages and that all the electrons in the semi-conductor
occupy separate energy levels since they obey Fermi statistics and are
in the same QM system. If one electron leaves the system, all change
their energy at the same time, responding instantaneously. I think
this description of a semi-conductor and response of electrons is
accepted theory.
Why would not the semi-conductor meet your definition of a coherent
system?
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: MarkI-Zeropoint
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To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
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Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 12:24 PM
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Subject: Re: [Vo]:FYI: Extraordinary momentum and spin discovered in
evanescent light waves
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Bob:
Of the several possibilites which you presented, only a BEC would
meet my definition of coherent.
Any assemblage of 2 or more atoms above a few degrees K are very
likely NOT coherent; or if coherency happens to occur in a localized
region of condensed matter, it won't last long enough to violate the
laws of physics/chemistry which have been developed based on the
UNcoherent behavior which defines bulk condensed matter.
I've posted numerous FYIs about peer-reviewed research over the years
which support a physical model I have in mind.
There was one that is particularly relevent to this topic of
coherency... This research took two identical atoms and cooled them down
to near-K. I believe they then introduced a quantum of heat. That
quantum was absorbed by one of the atoms, causing it to begin shaking.
They could do something to the system which caused the quantum of heat
to transfer to the other atom, which began shaking, and the first
became still.
You must look at all atoms as oscillators which have a fundamental
frequency which they want to get to; this may or may not be the same
thing as the 'lowest energy state' used by the mainstream. When you
remove all heat quanta from an assemblage of like atoms (oscillators),
they will oscillate at the same frequency and will be in a state of
coherency (which we call a BEC, "all wavefunctions overlapped). Add
just ONE quantum of heat into that assemblage and it will combine
with only one of the atoms, causing it to oscillate at a slightly
different frequency, and it will be 'out-of-balance' so to speak and
begin shaking... it wants to shed that quantum to get back to its
fundamental freq, and if it does shed it, that quantum will get
absorbed into another atom. So one can look at heat as individual
packets of energy which are being absorbed and shed in extremely
small time intervals by the atoms making up the bulk matter. Heat quanta
are the 'hot-potatoes' of the atomic world getting caught and tossed
constantly.
To complicate matters further, throw in phonons and SPPs, possibly
even 'spin', which potentially represent oscillators of a different
'flavor', and we now have a very very complicated system of potentially
interacting oscillators. A further complication is that quanta of
energy can ONLY be transferred between the different 'flavors' of
oscillators if conditions are right. This may involve FrankZ's
concept of a type of impedance-matching between the different types
of oscillators.
Given the above picture, is it any wonder that the probability of
achieving even a small region of what I call coherency, for any
significant length of time, in bulk matter is virtually nonexistent...
and that would be the 'universe' which is explained by current laws
of physics and chemistry. It also explains why LENR is so difficult
to reproduce.
Try shrinking yourself down to the size of a proton and enter a
NAE... what would you see? One of the threads I started in the last
year dealt with the inside of the NAE... It took awhile, but I think Ed
finally acknowledged the fact that if the NAE (dislocation or
'micro-crack') was large enough, and no atoms entered it, it would be
a perfect vacuum at 0K. Are there photons of heat constantly flying
thru it? Who knows... perhaps the NAE boundaries present a higher
barrier to atoms shedding heat quanta so the NAE remains pretty much
a perfect vacuum until a H or D atom diffuses into it. Does that H
or D atom then shed any heat quanta it has to join any others which
have also entered the NAE. If so, then wouldn't they form,
spontaneously, a BEC?
-Mark
On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 9:01 AM, Bob Cook wrote:
Mark--
One of the issues is what is the extent of Coherency--I have been
calling it coupling the material systems we know.
Are crystals coherent?, are nano particles coherent?,
are molecules coherent?, are BEC coherent?, are semiconductor
resistors coherent?
What in your experience defines the size of a coherent system?
Bob
rom: MarkI-ZeroPoint
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To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
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Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 11:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:FYI: Extraordinary momentum and spin discovered
in evanescent light waves
However, on the basis of an old calculation by Belinfante
[Physica 6 887 (1939)], it can be shown that the spin may be
regarded as an angular momentum generated by a * circulating flow
* of energy in the wave field of the electron.
This is at least somewhat understandable if one considers the
vacuum as a near-frictionless fluid under extreme pressure
you
cannot have flow without a pressure differential.
the spin of the electrons is entirely analogous to the angular
momentum carried by a classical circularly polarized wave.
I commented on the importance of coherence in a posting several
days ago
well, coherence involves not only a frequency component,
but a polarization (or phase relationship) component. The bulk
matter, or chemistry that Dr. Storms has spent his life in, does
NOT involve coherency
the laws that he is intimately familiar
with do not involve systems where significant groups of
atoms/electrons/SPP/??? are all coherently interacting
LENR will
require a new set of laws for these regions of coherent entities.
-Mark Iverson
From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 9:08 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:FYI: Extraordinary momentum and spin discovered
in evanescent light waves
http://jayryablon.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/ohanian-what-is-spin.pdf
<http://jayryablon.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/ohanian-what-is-spin.pdf>
What is Spin? Am J. Phys. 54 (6) June 1986
<http://jayryablon.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/ohanian-what-is-spin.pdf>
. The abstract is:
According to the prevailing belief, the spin of the electron or some
other particle is a mysterious internal angular momentum for which
no concrete physical picture is available, and for which there is
no classical analog. However, on the basis of an old calculation
by Belinfante [Physica 6 887 (1939)], it can be shown that the
spin may be regarded as an angular momentum generated by a
circulating flow of energy in the wave field of the electron.
Likewise, the magnetic moment may be regarded as generated by a
circulating flow of charge in the wave field. This provides an
intuitivelyl appealing picture and establishes that neither the
spin nor the magnetic moment are internal they are not
associated with the internal structure of the electron, but rather
with the structure of the field. Furthermore, a comparison between
calculations of angular momentum in the Dirac and electromagnetic
fields shows that the spin of the electrons is entirely analogous
to the angular momentum carried by a classical circularly polarized
wave.
On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 12:00 AM, Axil Axil < janap...@gmail.com
<javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('janap...@gmail.com')> >
wrote:
Regarding Belinfante spin momentum.
Belinfante worked out that the spin of the electron was produced
as a result of its wave function and not motion of forces within
the electron.
Now the same considerations show that spin comes from angular
momentum and the wave nature of photons.
That leans support to the concept that electrons and photons are
related if not identical.
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Bob Cook < frobertc...@hotmail.com
<javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('frobertc...@hotmail.com')>
wrote:
Jones--
It seems an answer to my original question for this blog--2 months
ago--about spin coupling is finally coming out. I hope Ed takes
note and decides to address the basic parameter, spin, in his
theory for LENR..
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Cook
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To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
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Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:FYI: Extraordinary momentum and spin
discovered in evanescent light waves
Jones--
the rabbit hole just became more crowded.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Jones Beene
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To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
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Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 2:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:FYI: Extraordinary momentum and spin
discovered in evanescent light waves
These references tie into the thread on a dynamical Casimir
effect in LENR and to SPP.
That may be why they were sent, but in case the connection is
not obvious to everyone, here is an additional point.
Mie scattering and Mies solution to Maxwell - is the
scattering of electromagnetic radiation by a sphere.
Generally a sphere makes a good radiator but does not make a
good antenna, but there are exceptions. When the sphere is a
micron-sized nickel powder, loaded with hydrogen and with
nanometer geometry in the surface features (tubules), all of this
becomes relevant to SPP.
On page 5 of the first link, they talk about SPP Recently, we
described such spin for surface plasmon polariton, and it
was shown that the imaginary longitudinal field component
plays an important role in optical coupling processes
From: Mark Jurich
Mark Iverson wrote:
| Extraordinary momentum and spin discovered in
evanescent light waves
|
http://phys.org/news/2014-03-extraordinary-momentum-evanescent.html
<http://phys.org/news/2014-03-extraordinary-momentum-evanescent.html>
| Paper Ref:
|
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140306/ncomms4300/full/ncomms4300.html
<http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140306/ncomms4300/full/ncomms4300.html>
FYI:
arXiv Preprint:
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1308/1308.0547.pdf
<http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1308/1308.0547.pdf>
(arXiv Abstract: http://arxiv.org/abs/1308.0547
<http://arxiv.org/abs/1308.0547> )
- Mark Jurich
