Hi Neil Thanks for your reasoned explanation. I came to a somewhat similar conclusion, but I have not acted on it. I’ve been setting up a new user for a different purpose today and find that user-switching (fast or slow) is rather tedious. And then discover on switching that I didn’t close an application for one or the other users.
It crossed my mind to set up the “backup” structure at the top level, and wondered if I had access to it, and what would happen when Apple changed to OS XI or whatever. I was intimidated by my first Mac to the extent that I rarely ventured beyond the Documents folder, and waited for lightning to strike if I put data up one level into my Home folder. I don’t think I have permission problems with the sparse images - but then I haven’t tested the process under fire. You have gone one step higher in the directory tree, and considered user permissions, so I may end up following you. Cheers Alan On 15 Dec 2014, at 3:35 pm, Neil Houghton <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Alan, Hi Ronni, Hi Daniel, > > Just a couple of thoughts/comments on using a separate user account and on > partitioning. > > > Using a separate user account to segregate your temporary backup data > > I tend to be the only user of my main computer and, in the past, I have used > the approach of separate user accounts to segregate distinct areas of my work > – in my case this was: > Me (main user) all my usual personal computing > Potoroo – all the work I do as a committee member and webmaster of a > not-for-profit community organisation > Genealogy – all the research, documents, images etc relating to my ongoing > family history investigations > > In the (really) old days before OSX, I just used to cover this with various > levels of cascading folders in my main DATA folder – but as OSX took over > Apple really pushed you in the direction of higher level splitting into > Documents/Pictures/Music/Movies etc. My first approach was that, rather than > creating three different (me/potoroo/genealogy) sets of subfolders in each of > the main Apple Documents/Pictures/Music/Movies folders, I would create the > three user accounts and just log into or switch to the relevant user account > depending on the work I was doing. > > In practice, I soon found lots of problems with this approach – I won’t > bother highlighting them all as most of them wouldn’t be relevant to your > proposed use of the separate user account – the big one that, I think, could > be a problem for you is User permissions. Ronni has written excellent > articles on user permissions before – so I won’t try and go into the details > - and possibly introduce some errors ;o) > > The thing is that Apple envisages user folders being used by different users > – who don’t want all their stuff being accessible to other users – so when > you are logged in as one user you (generally) don’t have access to stuff you > created when logged in as a separate user. What permissions a file gets also > can vary whether you move it on the same disc/partition, copy it, or move it > to another disc/partition (which will generally/always? Leave the original in > place and create a copy on the second disc/partition). > > Now there are ways around this, from using public folders to changing folder > and file permissions, and I always found a way to access the files I needed > to – but it DID become very tiresome – so the next time I did a major system > update, I reverted to one user for ALL my work and relied on an organised > filing system to keep track of it all (I do have a separate Computer Admin > user account that I can use for troubleshooting – but that is a different > use/purpose and that account does not hold any of my data/documents). > > You say you are wanting a “temporary” backup storage area and I’m not sure > exactly how you intend to move stuff into this and (perhaps more importantly) > how you intend to access it if you need to use the back-ups – so I don’t know > how much of a problem permissions issues would be to you – but if you find > you NEED the backup, it would be a bad time to discover permissions issues. > > If it was me, I would not create a new user account – instead I would just > create a new high level folder (called, say, temporary backups) and use that > to store the sparse images. I’m still on Snow Leopard and the main file > structure will no doubt have changed somewhat through Mavericks and Yosemite, > but the obvious option on my set-up would be a new folder, called temporary > backups, in users/shared – since it is outside your actual personal user > folder it is separated (as a new user folder would be) – but still owned by > you – so without the potential permissions/access problems). > > On my set-up I could even create a new folder at the top level of the disc > (ie alongside library, System, Users etc) which would put it even more > “out-of-the way” - however, personally, I prefer to leave this level clean, > with just the Apple created folder hierarchy. > > Just my personal observations/experience/preferences – others may well feel > differently – you need to find what works best for you. > > > > Using separate partitions on the main computer HD > > I would not dream of disagreeing with Daniel’s and Ronni’s comments – > partitions were much more useful/used in the past when storage was much more > expensive. Having said that, I DO have my HD partitioned ;o) > > I initially had my HD partitioned into 3: > > Main OSX and all user data/documents > Insurance back-ups from other computers > TV programs (downloaded video from iView and other sources) > > But, as Daniel mentioned, I fairly soon ran into partition size problems > (particularly 2) so I purchased more external drives to cover all the > back-ups, deleted partition 2 and re-organised to just have the 2 partitions: > > Main OSX and all user data/documents > TV programs (downloaded video from iView and other sources) > > > The main advantage, I find, is that I have quite different back-up > needs/schedules for the two partitions: > Partition 1 is my digital “life” it has 2 Superduper clones on separate > external drives and timemachine back-up. In addition, all the important > documents are synched to dropbox (and hence to 2 other computers – which also > have back-ups). You might say the approach is belt & braces & piece of string > – on 3 pairs of trousers ;o) > Partition 2 contains a lot of data and represents a fair bit of time/effort > in collecting it – it would be frustrating and annoying to lose it, but > hardly a tragedy. I have a superduper clone of this on a separate external > HD, which I update after adding a bunch of new content. I am happy with just > one clone and no time machine back-up – it’s just TV programs. > > I COULD have all this on one partition, exclude the TV stuff from Time > machine, and set-up more complex superduper scripts for back-up. But I do > find the two partition set-up the most convenient for me, at present. Having > said that, I can envisage myself setting up a network drive, attached > directly to the router, and ending up with video and music on that – and > leaving the computer clean of all that (and with just one partition). > > I have had no problems with my partitioning – but I DO research carefully how > it all works, read several “how-to”s including Apple’ and Ronni’s and make > sure I know exactly what I am going to do BEFORE I start. It goes without > saying that everything has back-ups before doing any of this – but you are > obviously a conscientious baker-upper and well-aware of these needs ;o) > > Again just my personal observations/experience/preferences – others may well > feel differently – you need to find what works best for you. > > > > > Cheers > > > > Neil > -- > Neil R. Houghton > Albany, Western Australia > Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 > Email: [email protected] > > > > > on 14/12/14 20:44, Alan Smith at [email protected] wrote: > > > Hi Daniel > > > > Thanks for your input. Yes, I’ve had the problem of partitions ending up > > the > > wrong size down the track. > > > > I wanted a “temporary” backup storage area as several “spare” external > > drives > > have data relating to the 2009 iMac in its various stages of decline and > > recovery. I don’t want to delete them yet. > > > > I decided on the sparse image approach because SuperDuper erases the target > > disk as part of its process - and I didn’t want that going on near the boot > > drive. I decided that I could put several images in the one partition, > > which > > could be moved one at a time if space became an issue. > > > > However, I am now thinking that my security needs (fumble fingers, not web > > probes!) could be improved by putting the sparse images in the standard > > structure of a second (bold, italic and underline!) user account. The > > images > > only need accessing once a month in normal times. May keep them there, and > > not worry about external drives at all … > > > > Cheers > > Alan > > > > > > On 14 Dec 2014, at 7:22 pm, Daniel Kerr <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> You can create one partition on a Fusion drive, after that ,…no. > >> More info here. - http://support.apple.com/en-au/HT202574 > >> My personal opinion on partitions on internal drives,…and again I point > >> out,..this is my personal opinion, I think partitions are a waste of time. > >> You're not gaining any benefit with a partition, and nine times out of > >> ten, > >> down the track either Part A or Part B of the partition is the "wrong > >> size". > >> Then you have to go back to square one. > >> Generally just easier to a) get another external drive as a backup (as > >> externals are cheap), as you'll spend less "money time" on it and can get > >> larger sizes,…or just create a backup folder to back up to. > >> There's no real "benefit" in partitioning I find…not these days. It's not > >> like if one partition dies it's not going to affect the other partition, > >> as > >> it's the same drive……. > >> > >> Again, just my take on it,….. > >> > >> Kind regards > >> Daniel > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone 6 > >> > >> --- > >> Daniel Kerr > >> MacWizardry > >> > >> Phone: 0414 795 960 > >> Email: <daniel AT macwizardry.com.au> > >> Web: <http://www.macwizardry.com.au> > >> > >> > >> **For everything Apple** > >> > >> NOTE: Any information provided in this email may be my personal opinion > >> and > >> as such should be taken accordingly, and may not be the views of > >> MacWizardry. > >> Any information provided does not offer or warrant any form of warranty or > >> accept liability. It would be appreciated that if any information in this > >> email is to be disseminated, distributed or copied, that permission by the > >> author be requested. > >> > >> On 13/12/2014, at 1:04 PM, Alan Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> I would like to utilise some of the vast unused space on the internal > >>> drives > >>> of two iMacs as backups for films. Is this possible? If it is > >>> possible > >>> then what is the downside? Could such a partition be later removed to > >>> restore the space to OS X? I do not want to go through the disk-erase > >>> and > >>> OS X re-install operation! > >>> > >>> My concept is to use SuperDuper to create a sparse image (which permits > >>> smart updates) of some of the films on a USB 3 external drive. In > >>> practice I would use say three sparse images for ease of management. > >>> > >>> iMac 1 (2012) has 1TB with Fusion Drive. iMac 2 (2009) has a standard > >>> 1TB > >>> drive. I would prefer to use the Fusion Drive iMac for the backups. > >>> Both > >>> iMacs have Mavericks installed, and hence should also have Recovery > >>> partitions. (If an OS X upgrade or Boot Camp can install partitions, > >>> why > >>> not me??) > >>> > >>> I have assumed a partition would be needed, but can a sparse image simply > >>> be > >>> used as a file within the ‘Macintosh HD’ OS X startup volume structure? > >>> > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Alan > >>> > >>> Alan Smith > >>> Late 2012 iMac 27" Intel Quad Core i5 Fusion 3.2GHz 8G RAM - OSX 10.9.5 > >>> Mavericks > >>> Late 2009 iMac 21.5" Intel Core 2 Duo 3.06GHz 12G RAM - OSX 10.9.5 > >>> Mavericks > >>> iPhone5; iPad2; ATV2 > > -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- > Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> > Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> > Settings & Unsubscribe - > <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug>
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