The Debate over Women-Led Prayer
Guest Name : Dr. Jamal Badawi Subject : The Debate over Women-Led Prayer Date : Tuesday,Oct 21 ,2008 Time : Makkah - From... 08:00...To... 16:45 GMT - From... 05:00...To...13:45 Dear visitors, The session has just started. Please feel free to join us with your questions. After the session has ended, you can view the whole dialogue by clicking Recent Sessions, or later on Archive . For feedback and suggestions, please e-mail us at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yours, Islamonline Live Dialogue Editing Desk Name Fatimah - Gambia Question: Assalamualiakum, Thank you so much for encouraging all Muslims to participate in all issues as far as Islam is concern.. My question is...as a women leading prayers do u have to be in the same line with the followers? and when residing the fatihah and the sorah.do the followers have to recite too or they jus have to recite fatiha? Jazakallahu Answer It was narrated that 'Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, led other women in prayer and stood in the same line with them. As to recitation, what is required of men applies to women as well, including some differences in details between schools of thought (madhhabs). Name Sadia - Ethiopia Profession : Secretary Question : How can women lead prayer? She can manage it perfectly if it was permitted. But imagine what will happen.can you think of your prayer or the beauty of her voice? This is Allah's wisdom.Subhanallah! Answer It is possible that what you said about concentration on prayer maybe one of the possible reasons why the Prophet, peace be upon him, did not ask qualified women to lead mixed prayer in public. Name Nabil - Ethiopia Profession: Student Question : Asselamu Aleykum Werahmetualhi Weberekathu Dear Dr. Jamal, I want to know why Women are not allowed to lead in prayers, and if they do in any case what are the reasons.Shukren. Answer There are two types of injunctions in Islamic teachings. First are those injunctions in the Qur'an and Sunnah that relate to the matter of pure worship of Allah. It has been the consensus of scholars in the past and present that since worship is an act of expression of trust and love of Allah Almighty, then they should be followed as taught to us by Allah and His messenger. That means we are not supposed to introduce any innovation in those matters since this is the most serious type of innovation condemned in Hadith. The other types of injunctions are those that relate to non- pure worship issues. In these issues we are encouraged to understand the wisdom behind them and implement them but without violating the texts that are definitive in authenticity and meaning or violating the proper rules of interpretation. This does not mean that we should never try to understand the wisdom of acts of worship as well. Such understanding begins with reference to the Qur'an and Hadith. For example, the Qur'an alludes to some of the purposes behind prayers, including remembrance of Allah and the fact that prayer restrains the person from indecency and sin. The Qur'an indicates that fasting helps us avoid what is forbidden and to restrain ourselves. The same applies to all other acts of pure worship. However, in the matter of pure worship, the search for understanding the wisdom behind them is not a pre-condition to abide by what Allah and His messenger taught us. Furthermore, whatever "wisdom" behind them represents only our humble human understanding without claiming that we have access to the full divine wisdom which is exclusive to Allah Almighty. Name : Muslim Hedonist - Profession : - Question : What is it that we are taught that women can't lead a congregation of men simply because of sexual attraction, that women have to be wrapped in layers of cloth, hidden behind barriers and curtains, or banished to basements in order to pray in congregation? Are women not included in the Quran's declaration that "We have honoured the children of Adam"? I can almost imagine a different way of looking at women's bodies, one which celebrates their power to bear, nourish and sustain life, and sees them as reminders of the creator. One that regards women's bodies---and men's bodies---as sacred rather than as profane distractions from the serious business of worship. Answer Firstly, please see the previous answer concerning pure acts of worship. Secondly, there is no text in the Qur'an or Hadith that says that women "have to be wrapped in layers of cloth, hidden behind barriers and curtains, or banished to basements in order to pray in congregation". The Prophet, peace be upon him, welcomed women in his Masjid in Madinah and they were praying in the same area like men in rows with men in front and women in the back so as to respect their desire for modesty in the prayers that require standing toe to toe and shoulder to shoulder and involve physical movements such as bowing and prostration. So there was no such thing as "banishments to basements". According to authentic Hadith, there were occasions that the Masjid of the Prophet was so full that the last row of men was immediately ahead of the first row of women. Thirdly, the Qur'anic declaration of honouring the children of Adam in Surah 17, verse 70 obviously includes men and women. Since the verse did not say that Allah honours men only. The greatest dignity and honour that any human can attain is through obedience to Allah and His messenger especially in how to perform pure acts of worship in accordance to authentic teachings, not according to our own theories and speculations. After all, as mentioned in the first answers in this session, pure acts of worship teach us obedience, submission, trust and love of Allah. Fourthly, the precautions we are instructed to follow in the matter of modesty which is necessary for concentration and devotion when we are in communion with Allah in prayer and the minimization of possible and sometimes powerful distractions, do not mean the bodies of men and women are "profane". It is simply the realization of the undeniable male/female attraction to one another, whose right place is matrimonial relationship not the devotional acts of worship. Name : Sara Ali - Canada Profession : - Question : Dr. Wadud and the Progressive Muslim Union argue that it is not they, but those who deny Muslim women full equality of access to leadership, who are the ones who have broken away from Quranic principles and prophetic practices. I have never seen any opponent of full equality for women who would squarely address the claim that the Prophet commanded Umm Waraqah to lead the congregational prayers for the men and women of her area. Instead, the example of Umm Waraqah is usually brushed aside and the claim is advanced that the Prophet never appointed any women to such leadership. But even discounting the example of Umm Waraqah, I have not seen anyone who could point to a reliable report that the Prophet actively denied any leadership position to someone who was otherwise fully qualified for the post, solely because that person was a woman. Answer : Firstly, the Hadith about Umm Waraqa was in the context of leading prayer within her own household, not mixed prayers in the Masjid. Secondly, it is known that it was the duty of the Prophet, peace be upon him, to teach us fully and completely about the acts of pure worship. This is confirmed in more than one Hadith; for example, he said: "Pray as you see me pray." He even reported that Gabriel is the one who taught him how to pray according to the instructions given by Allah Almighty. With respect to Hajj, he said: "learn from me your rites (of pilgrimage)." As such, if indeed it is permissible for a woman to lead a mixed congregational prayers in public, especially in the Masid, it would have been the duty of the Prophet, peace be upon him, to show us by example. Certainly, there were lots of qualified, pious and learned Muslim women in his lifetime. He never asked any of them to lead mixed public congregational prayer, even once, so as to teach us how we should practice our pure acts of worship. The Prophet, peace be upon him consistently and repeatedly taught us what is permissible and what is not permissible in this crucial act of worship, which is the second pillar of Islam after the testimony of faith. I have never heard of a single occasion in his 23-year mission that he ever did that even once. The exception for Umm Waraqah to lead prayers was in the context of her own household, not in public as explained earlier in this session. This is obviously a tacit, if not a clear indication that women leading mixed congregation in public is not part of his teachings. For committed Muslims, male and female, the priority is to follow the beloved Prophet, peace be upon him, rather than following whims of other human beings no matter how learned or well-meaning they may be. Name : Saburah - Profession : - Question As'salem alekoum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu. As a practising Muslimah who tries to live according to the Salafi dawah, I feel deeply saddened when I see the 'attempted' dismantlement & destruction of our beautiful & complete Islamic system by people such as Amina Wudud, and others. What bothers me is that there is already so much mis-information given to non Muslims, that this just adds fuel to the fire so to speak. People like Amina Wudud appear to be presenting the view that Islam in its pure state is a backward & mysogenistic religion, which can only be combated by tainting it with ideas such as Western Femininism. This is truly bidah, and shows the fragmented nature of an Ummah from which this kind of thinking has sprung. Unless we educate the Ummah to adhere to the true principles of Islam, the thin edge of the wedge will have already opened the door to all manner of evil and corrupt behaviour. We already see the 'clothed but naked' (quasi) Muslim women, we hear of (quasi) Muslim homosexual groups, etc, and now 'women leading men in prayer'. At what point does this end, and how do we as Muslim's fight the evil within our own society, and at the same time make dawah and educate non Muslims about the true principles of Islam? Answer : My respected sister, you are not the only Muslim woman who sees the issue of women leading mixed congregation as a frivolous concern that is blown out of proportion. I have seen, heard and read many other Muslim women like yourself who expressed the view that to them it is a non-issue and that they have no problem whatsoever as to who leads the prayer according to the Prophet's teachings. For example, I have read an excellent article written by a learned female scholar, Dr. Heba Rauf, who is a professor at Cairo University, criticizing the over-occupation with such "non-issue" as I called it. It is true that there seems to be an organized campaign to divert Muslims' attention from major issues facing them to such type of issues and innovations in the pure religion of Allah. May Allah guide all. I may add also that what is happening today is a fulfillment of the prophecy made by the Prophet, peace be upon him, that he warned that some of his followers will imitate the ways of others. What is needed today is to hold tight to the rope of Allah, and not to be divided. Obsession with these issues is divisive by nature. Name : Muqbil Eltantawi - United Kingdom Profession : - Question Some people say there is no innovation if a woman leads prayers because there is no explicit command from the Qur'an or Hadith that the leader must be a man. Innovating in prayer would mean changing the number of rakats, for example. What do you think? Answer Please check previous answers that addressed the question of evidence. It is well-known that Hadith means the words, actions and approval of the Prophet, peace be upon him. Since the matter of worship is tawqeefi, meaning that we stop at what the Prophet, peace be upon him, taught us without introducing any changes, then we should not introduce any innovation in such matters. Innovating in prayers does not only mean changing the number of rak'ah, but it does include as well the rules of congregational prayer. The Prophet, peace be upon him, never asked a woman to lead a mixed prayer in public or in his Masjid even for the sake of teaching the Ummah that this is permissible. Evidence could be both positive by pointing out to an explicit prohibition. It can also be a negative evidence in the matters of pure acts of worship. This means the absence of any precedents in the statements, actions or approvals of the Prophet, peace be upon him, which is in this tawqeefi matter of pure worship is a valid evidence. This is different from the rule that "things are permissible unless otherwise designated as forbidden" for the latter rule is in the context, not in the rules of pure worship but in other mundane aspects of life such as food and drinks. Name Teresa - United Kingdom Profession : mature student/homemaker Question Assalamu-alaikum Dear sir, do you think or opionionate that women will fall into the fitna of following such innovations due to often cultural attitudes towards women attending mosques by men. I would ask do you believe this is an enlightened female taking Islam into the 21st century, or a product of the failure of some men in their cultural, not religious zeal to displace the importance of women within the Islamic faith. Thankyou Answer I agree that some innovations are due to marginalizing Muslim women in some masjids and Islamic centers. However, such actions are not reflective of the pure, normative teachings of Islam. They are reflections of some Muslim cultural practices, which is not identical to pure Islamic culture based on its pristine teachings. Name : Karema - Profession : - Question : The Muslim world faces a lot of troubles and problems. Why does Amina Wadoud come up with such crazy things in the middle of all this? Answer I am as much puzzled as you are; may Allah guide us all to have the wisdom to understand our priorities and not to be distracted by such arguments. I would have hoped that Sister Amina would use her scholarship to address more pressing issues facing the Ummah such as occupation, oppression, huge disparity of wealth distribution, and more serious challenges threatening to destroy the fiber and unity of the Ummah. Even on women issues there are far more important concerns and challenges than "who leads the prayers" such as the disregard of women's legitimate Shari'ah rights, misinterpretations that violate their human dignity, marginalization of women and absence of their full participation within Shari'ah guidelines and in some cases the bias of some judiciary pertaining to women's rights. I wish that Sister Amina would be as outspoken in defending the rights of Muslim women who are forbidden and/or restricted from wearing hijab, if they so desire, which is rampant not only in some Western countries such as France, but also in some Muslim countries such as Turkey and Tunisia. Name : Ashraf Fayad - Belgium Profession : student Question I agree that Muslim men and women are ethically and spiritually equal in Islamic law. Both are responsible for their actions before Allah in the hereafter. The question is does Islam acknowledge physical equality between Muslim men and women? There have been arrangements during the congregational prayers that men are in the front, followed by male children and then followed by women and female children. Who made such arrangements and what are their bases? Answer Obviously there is no physical equality between men and women. For example, women are created to bear children, not men. Physical features of men and women are obviously different. So the issue is not equality; the real issue here is equity and complimentarity between men and women. Allah could have created a unisex manifesting total physical equality. Please refer to my book "Gender Equity in Islam". The arrangements of men/women and children in the congregational prayer were instructed by the Prophet, peace be upon him, in his capacity as our teacher and above all the messenger of Allah. Name : Abd4ullah - United States Profession : Hotel Question : Asalamalakum, Dear respected brother, I first off would like to thank you for all your efforts for this Ummah, May Allah swt Reward you. My question is; Have you or any other of the Muslim scholars tried to talk to this women to get her to better understand what is making her do this. She obviously is very arrogant in her thinking but God knows best because that's the only way I can think of somebody doing something like this. Thanks for you time Asalamalkum wr wb Answer I am all for intra-faith dialogue, and I personally support dialogue even with those brothers and sisters who differ with the majority of the ummah on crucial issues so long as all agree to take the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His messenger as their supreme guide and not to place any personal whims or opinions above these two primary sources of Islam. The problem in many cases is the availability of time and the occupation of many scholars (and I don't consider myself one of them) in more pressing priorities affecting the Ummah. Name : Yusuf - Bangladesh Profession : Service Question Assalamu Alaikum Dear Shaikh! How do we confront feminists on this issue? Jazaakallaah! Answer Let us get occupied with the pure teachings of Allah and His messenger, trying to understand them in the spirit of humility and willing acceptance. Let us also focus on our more important priorities and ignore, if need by, argumentative and less important diversions. Let us also pray for Allah's guidance for all of us to the truth. Name : Editor - Profession : Answer Finally, we would like to thank Dr. Jamal Badawi for taking the time to answer the questions of Islamonline viewers today, and we apologize for not being able to accommodate all questions within the time allocated for this dialogue. We thank all those who participated in this dialogue, and we encourage our readers to join us in upcoming sessions. http://www.islamonline.net/livedialogue/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=yjiT6F [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
