You know, I think I'm in 100% agreement with you, except that there
are some times when cross-platform is more important than usability.
No, really. Not very often, and the gains of cross-platform need to
outweigh the loss of usability.
On Mar 10, 2008, at 9:38 AM, Robert Walker wrote:
I realize that I'm probably in a minority here, but I am not looking
forward to Java, of any sort, coming to the iPhone. If you're
interested in writing iPhone applications, use the native iPhone SDK
and build a "real" iPhone application. Objective C is not that far a
leap from Java and you would have native access it all the iPhone
APIs.
I agree. If you want a true iPhone app, you must use the iPhone SDK.
Same goes for AJAX Web Apps if you ask me. They are a poor second to
native applications.
The fear I have of Java coming to the iPhone is that if it exists,
people might think about using it. I've felt the same way about
desktop applications to be honest. The only time I ever choose to
use a Java application on the desktop is when there's absolutely no
other choice. However, I do understand the appeal of "write once,
run anywhere." In practice, though, it generally makes for a less
than stellar user experience.
And I think most users agree with you. If there is a native
alternative, they won't use the "cross-platform" or "least-common-
denominator" version because it is just clunky and usually doesn't do
things "right". This is true of the regular PC apps, and will be
doubly if not triply true of multi-touch based apps.
For example, I've been less than impressed with any Java based IDE
I've used. I'm amazed at what the developers have been able to
accomplish with these IDEs, but every time I open one I wish it was
a native application. I miss the responsiveness of Xcode and wish
there existed a Mac OS X native IDE that understood the Java
language to the depth of Eclipse or NetBeans. I'm not holding my
breath waiting for one though.
I think this hits the nail on the head. There are some things that
having a native UI for each and every platform out there is
impossible. Eclipse's strength is that it can run on any platform to
write software for any platform. Because that's what Java is for. If
my Java Client application had to be native, it would be a Windows-
only application just because that is what my users have on the desktop.
Unless Sun (or someone else) develops suitable Mulit-Touch UI
extensions to the existing Java UI options (Swing, SWT, etc), any Java
app on the iPhone is going to be a horrible user experience compared
to what users on that platform expect, as you say, it is usually a
horrible experience just on the desktop! If all you want to do is
click some buttons, read some text, and fill out a simple form,
_maybe_ it will be "okay" . But if you want to make a true multi-touch
application that takes advantage of all the things the native UI can
do, Java is not going to be what you want to use.
Multi-touch is a whole new way of interacting with technology. We are
just seeing the beginnings with swipe- and pinch-type gestures. On
multi-touch devices, having the old mouse-and-keyboard UI forced on
you is going to feel like the command line did (and still does) on the
original Mac.
I think the Web Services side of WebObjects is going to see additional
interest by Cocoa Touch developers soon. I know that's where I'm going
to start looking when it comes to a iPhone/iPod Touch UI for my
application.
Anyway, I'm sure we'll see Java come to the iPhone, I just hope it
is made clear for any apps using it so that I can avoid them. I
wouldn't want anyone installing a Java VM on my iPhone without
making it very clear that it's happening.
Well, after reading the licensing for the SDK, I doubt Sun is going to
have much success in distributing Java to the iPhone/iPod Touch to
anyone other than enterprises as for the general public it would be an
end-run around the security and the apple-approved-ness of the iPhone
App Store.
Dave
On Mar 9, 2008, at 12:05 PM, David Avendasora wrote:
Java Client on the iPhone/iPod Touch could be really cool, but
without custom UI extensions to deal with the touch interface, I
think you'll end up with a very non-Touch feel and therefor alien-
feeling app. Sure it would be functional, but not really a "Touch"
application. Now, with Swing/SWT/Whatever-Touch extensions, that
has possibilities...
As far as Direct To Java Client, unfortunately I think it is all
but dead. It's deprecated, even though I've had some success
getting it running under 5.4.1, it is no longer supported and the
number of people out there using it numbers in the handful.
D2JC was wonderful and I'm really not looking forward to building
every piece of my JC UI from scratch, but I think it's time to move
on, to more robust and supported Java Client technologies. Florijan
Stamenkovic's, Paulo Sommaruga's or similar new JC framework
should really be at the core of any WO Java Client app moving
forward.
Dave
On Mar 8, 2008, at 11:30 PM, Baiss Eric Magnusson wrote:
Subject: Re: State of WO Java Client
To: Development WebObjects <[email protected]>
Your templates are converted and posted!
http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=2655245
What's the word on JBND's WO 5.4.1 compatibility? Any issues that
you
know of?
Dave
Any thoughts from out there on running DTJC on the iPhone.
I spent three months with DTJC and although the project went
nowhere it was interesting to experience the native client feel.
Sun announced they were going to make a J2ME for the iPhone.
Objective-C might be more fun but that seems too much of a stretch.
----
Baiss Eric Magnusson
<http://www.Track-Your-Finances.com>
<http://www.CascadeWebDesign.com>
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