Um, short term gain, long term loss I think :( On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Mike Schrag <[email protected]> wrote: > The twist on this, I suppose, is that we should ENCOURAGE people to leave > the community so we can kick their asses and steal their contracts by > continuing to build WO apps. > > ms > > On Sep 17, 2009, at 12:29 PM, Christian Trotobas wrote: > >> Just for the exercise of giving another point of view: my company does not >> plan at all to drop WO. On the contrary, we are able to introduce the >> framework to new customers in France for 3 years now, and we train new WO >> developers every year. >> >> For public institutions, it is true that they are pushing forward open >> source technologies. But there are plenty of Websphere and Weblogic out >> there, too. The true war, in my opinion, is not "private" solutions against >> open source solutions, but Websphere or Weblogic or MS or... against all the >> others, including open sources solutions and WO. Not a new situation since >> big consulting companies have already dropped WO for years and years. Good >> point, they are looking in the Apple area again, thanks to the iPhone. Let's >> take it as an opportunity, though I totally agree with the others posters >> that it won't be easy at all. >> >> Another comment: AFAIK, WO is supported by small dev companies only, or to >> be more accurate: very small dev companies or indies. Not easy to target the >> main companies or institutions with such a taxonomy. But there are plenty of >> other market segments where WO meet the needs perfectly. Fortunately, a lot >> of companies still care about return on investment and time to market, or >> quick prototyping. And WO is pretty good at that. >> >> From my point of view, I can't see why an open source WO would perform >> much much better on the market than the current "privately hold" version. We >> would still face MS and Websphere and Weblogic and jBoss and friends, not >> talking of Rails and other nice frameworks in java or not. >> >> What I expect is: people who argue today that they want to drop WO because >> it is not opensource, they will argue tomorrow that it is not a mainstream >> technology, that it is not that j2ee compliant or not enough, that they is >> not enough developers, that Apple have released it but that they are still >> behind the product, etc, etc, etc. Therefore, what we would gain —the open >> source label— would be far less than what we would loose —Apple management >> and commitment on the long term. >> >> The actual (only ?) point we should argue with Apple (again, my personal >> point of view) : if Apple get so much from WO, they need developers now and >> in the future, at least to be able to hire them to enable their own growth. >> My guess is that they are deeply aware of that fact. We wait for a concrete >> action from them and hopefully, a marketing effort. The first and only step >> is to give confidence in the future of the product, and among others, this >> is what a roadmap is made for. Or a dedicated website. Or a killing JS >> framework. Or all of them at once. >> >> >> But in the meantime, please let's continue and advocate. For a few years, >> and maybe for a while in the future, we are not only WO developers and >> supporters, but also marketing people by need. Today, nobody on Earth shares >> a better position than ours to advocate WO. Sometimes, unfortunately, it >> comes to believing or not. If we don't, who will ? >> >> >> Christian >> >> >> >> On 17 sept. 2009, at 11:01, Pascal Robert wrote: >> >>> I get reports from multiple people in France that are saying the same >>> thing. Based on those reports, it look like most WO devs in France are/will >>> drop WO in the next 12 months, and France was one of the biggest WO "market" >>> :-/ >>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 16, 2009, at 5:14 AM, Mike Nowak wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I don't care particularly if its open source. I just want a road >>>>>> map or a deprecation date if any. >>>>> >>>>> Yeah, me too >>>> >>>> >>>> On the opposite, we are giving up on WO because our clients (French >>>> public institutions) want open source solutions. >>>> >>>> JPM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca >>>> >>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>> Pascal Robert >>> >>> http://www.macti.ca | http://www.linkedin.com/in/macti >>> >>> Skype | Twitter | AIM/iChat : MacTICanada >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/trotobas%40mac.com >>> >>> This email sent to [email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> >> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40mdimension.com >> >> This email sent to [email protected] > > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jmlittle%40gmail.com > > This email sent to [email protected] > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
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