The for-profit vs. non-profit distinction is irrelevant. The "3rd-party" testing vendors have to pay their bills and employees (and if for-profit, bestow largesse upon their shareholders), and thus must charge for their services. As long as they are directly charging the CEs or vendors who are being tested, they may credibly call themselves "3rd-party" validators, testers, certifiers or whatever.
If on the other hand, a testing company received any kind of remuneration from others - especially if it's hidden - for testing, not only would that be unethical, but it would not deserve to call itself "independent" or a "3rd-party." As an example, if the testing company steered the CE to a particular remediation or consulting outfit based on the results of the testing - and perhaps took a cut of the consulting fees under the table - that would indeed be highly problematical. There's no such thing as a free lunch. Make a decision whether it's worth it to have an independent and objective "3rd-party" test your HIPAA transactions, and if so, pay them. William J. Kammerer Novannet, LLC. Columbus, US-OH 43221-3859 +1 (614) 487-0320 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Brancato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WEDI SNIP Testing Subworkgroup List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, 20 December, 2002 10:01 AM Subject: RE: Who's on Third? Bill/John, Is it fair to say then that independent 3rd party should be defined as one without commercial profit motive? Is that what I'm reading? I, too am getting lost. As we know, non-profit does not mean you don't make a profit. Chris Brancato -----Original Message----- From: William J. Kammerer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 9:52 AM To: WEDI SNIP Testing Subworkgroup List Subject: Re: Who's on Third? John, you're losing me. There would a conflict only if a "3rd-Party" tester were selling translators, practice management or adjudication systems or whatever - or offering remediation services - the very things supposedly being tested. None of Claredi (the Lord Voldemort of HIPAA Validation - "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named"), Foresight and Edifecs sell the types of software they purport to test. Thus, they can each credibly call themselves an "independent 3rd-party," whether they're selling hosted testing services or desktop validation software. William J. Kammerer Novannet, LLC. Columbus, US-OH 43221-3859 +1 (614) 487-0320 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Singer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WEDI SNIP Testing Subworkgroup List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, 19 December, 2002 12:42 PM Subject: Re: Who's on Third? William, You are right. In most of the US the certification is 2nd party as currently defined as communities are naming the certifiers and demanding to use them. My point was they are not true 3rd parties, nor independent because of the underlying motivation of being able to make a software sale to the client instead of just being in the business of being an independent certifier with no monetary enticement on the backend. John Singer Duluth, MN. -- ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Kammerer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WEDI SNIP Testing Subworkgroup List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, 19 December, 2002 12:04 PM Subject: Who's on Third? The 1st and 2nd parties would be the covered entities testing standard transactions. The testing or certification service is a "3rd party." No certification or testing service is self-appointed: at least one of the parties (the "1st" party, usually the payer) has selected (or "appointed") the vendor to serve as a proxy for itself in order to vet trading partners. William J. Kammerer Novannet, LLC. Columbus, US-OH 43221-3859 +1 (614) 487-0320 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Singer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WEDI SNIP Testing Subworkgroup List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, 19 December, 2002 11:26 AM Subject: Re: NCQA Certifies Compliance SNIP Comes Up Short Marcallee, One of the other major problems is WEDI definition of "third party". Third parties as defined currently is incorrect, no such thing as a self-appointed third party, that is called 1st party testing and also how can you be considered "independent" when you sell software as a vendor? You are not independent you are trying to sell your products... Third party certifier have an organization watching over their shoulder! --- The WEDI SNIP listserv to which you are subscribed is not moderated. The discussions on this listserv therefore represent the views of the individual participants, and do not necessarily represent the views of the WEDI Board of Directors nor WEDI SNIP. If you wish to receive an official opinion, post your question to the WEDI SNIP Issues Database at http://snip.wedi.org/tracking/. These listservs should not be used for commercial marketing purposes or discussion of specific vendor products and services. They also are not intended to be used as a forum for personal disagreements or unprofessional communication at any time. 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