On Mar 1, 2005, at 10:00 PM, David White wrote:
I have considered this, and I don't think I can support a proposal to
add units to CVS and the distribution simply because they 'might be
useful someday'. I think any units that are added should have an
imminent use. Every file in the Wesnoth distribution does have some
maintenance effort associated with it. Every file we add adds to the
complexity. Sure, a few more images might not seem like much, but it
is more files to be managed, more files that need to be converted if
we, say, wanted to convert all image files to a new format (this has
been done several times already in the project's history, so we can't
rule it out from happening again). Every file adds complexity to our
substantially-sized project for newcomers.
However, that's not to say that the Wesnoth developers can't find new
ways to support building up libraries of images and other content for
campaign developers to use. This was in fact the original model that
Francisco and I used: he put his images up on a web page, and I would
pick and use any I liked and had a use for. The system worked well.
The Wesnoth tarball doesn't have to be the only file the Wesnoth
developers distribute. We can make another package that we distribute
which contains additional content intended for use by campaign
developers. A developer could volunteer to maintain this, to collate
the data into a package, and regularly make releases of it which would
be posted onto the website. Alternatively, the developers could
maintain a web site which accepts submissions of content that would be
made available for campaign designers to use.
I think that would be a very, very good idea. We don't have any need
for an in-game content server, but somewhere a little easier to store
things on than the forum would be a great place to put files. The idea
is to have a zip file, a description, and a preview image. If we had
an ftp server, with different directories, this would work very well.
There is a very important thing about this, in that this would be
something only developers could add files to. The units on here, would
be fully animated, and fully scripted for use, and they would be
approved for graphical quality by the official artists of the game.
These would not be messy hacks, like the elven beast hunter. That
said, I should clarify that most units by, say, Sangel, fully exceed
the level quality I would establish as a minimum threshold. These
would be put on this server, and made available to everyone. If a good
number of campaigns were using the unit, perhaps it could be included
in the standard distribution. Who knows.
This was the point I was trying to drive home: that we should reduce
the amount of work a potential campaign writer needs to use one of
these units to an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM. There is a barrier here - a
barrier of work that seems imposing to many potential campaign authors.
Many potential authors, despite a good work ethic and skills, do not
have the ambition/will (or whatever you choose to call it) to overcome
this barrier - it intimidates them into not attempting the task, be
that using the unit, or even making a campaign at all.
Once they pass this barrier, depending on the kind of person they are,
they might become "trapped" inside - held to the task by routine and
commitment to finishing a what they have started. This is how people
work on artistic endeavours, and as best I understand it, this is a key
part of the KISS philosophy. By reducing the barrier of work to
getting some return on that work, you bind yourself to the work by
making it enjoyable. The joy of seeing your work in progress is the
initial thing that pulls you into the job, and from there, commitment
and wanting to see something through its due course take over. (This
is what I meant by "psychological things")
Anyhow, the specifics of the implementation of this server are not up
to me. I do want to stress that it would probably work best if this
was not linked to files hosted on the forum. We've tried that already,
and it's a bit of a mess. We don't necessarily need this to be on the
wiki - I can write a webpage, and I could maintain this myself, since
anything added to it would need to be polished and approved, likely by
me. This is just a suggestion, the specifics of where to host it are
up to those who do host it - we take what we can get.
If any developer(s) wants to work on creating and maintaining a
content library, then let us know. I think the Wesnoth development
team should and will support any such effort.
The Wesnoth releases though, should be kept relatively lean: only
containing content that is actually used directly in the official
versions of the game.
I take it, based on responses previously received, that some people
*really* want the standard distro to stay lean. :)
On the specific issue of the Dwarvish Runemaster line:
This unit line is not something new; it has been discussed for close
to a year already. I am kinda sympathetic toward it, because I have
never liked the outlaws and dwarves being lumped together in the
Knalgan Alliance. I think it looks contrived and silly. The outlaws
were originally meant to be 'neutral units' -- weaker units that
aren't really part of any faction.
On the other hand, I'm not sure exactly how much closer the Runemaster
will take the Dwarves to being able to 'declare independence' from the
outlaws. It seems to me that we'll basically have five dwarvish units
that all have similiar movement and defense values, with one being a
basic fighter, one being a ranged fighter, and the other three simply
having different 'cool' abilities.
Five dwarvish units that form some of the most versatile melee groups
in the game - also, one of which always has a good defensive value. I
really like this idea, because it would make the dwarvish faction very
unique - the dwarves don't have a lot of advantages that everyone else
has, but they do have the advantage of being able to work like a roman
legion in tortoise formation. They move slowly. They need to hold
together, in formation, to have strength. However, they are very
difficult to break apart, and with this runemaster, they will now be
able punch into things with *some* force.
Regarding other units in the knalgan alliance:
The footpad is useful only for his speed, and evasive defense. He does
very little damage, and even against undead, his damage is quite weak.
The thug really breaks the feel of the faction - all of his uses are
eclipsed by the dwarven fighter, he is just cheaper.
The trapper is useful only for ranged attacks. Doesn't do much damage.
Again, he is cheaper.
The gryphon rider is very useful as a heavy scout.
I think it would be nice it all except the gryphon could be replaced by
two dwarven units:
A dwarven runner would provide the better part of the footpad's speed
(six moves, rather than seven), with a split between ranged and melee
attacks somewhat like the Javelineer.
Like most dwarves, he would be expensive, and unusually tough for his
level. Compared to most dwarves, he would have slightly lower
resistances (a la berserker), but would also have better evasive
defense on most terrain. Perhaps he could be dwarven analog to the
footpad, and get 20% better defense than a standard unit of the race on
most terrain?
Also, perhaps he could carry throwing hammers instead of axes to fully
eclipse the role of the footpad? Hopefully, by being resilient enough,
he would be able to eclipse the role of the trapper, as well, just by
staying around long enough on the battlefield.
The runemaster would provide a magic, melee, impact attack, and
potentially the damage-reducing aura I mentioned earlier. His magic
attack would, unlike most others, be somewhat pyrrhic in use, since
most enemies have a melee attack. He would do best at driving archers
out of forest, especially the skeletal variety. He would also give
ghosts, and flying units a hard way to go. He would achieve every
capability of the thug, except that he would not be chaotic.
Also, if he had the aura I mentioned, he would have a much more
powerful, and general effect. Instead of using healing to hold the
dwarven formation together, he would make them require healing less
often. This would be no different than leadership - something acquired
at level-2. But I think it would be a skill very uniquely appropriate
for dwarves.
People have stated a wish to make factions unique. If anything, it is
the lack of uniqueness that I dislike about the knalgans - they are
made like other factions by adding units from other races to them.
Fortunately, our races are quite unique right now - I don't want that
to change. The proposed replacements for the trapper, footpad, and
thug would be much more dwarvish in nature - slower, tougher, more
expensive - than the units they replaced.