Component reference is there. Wiki contains several good docs on the inner workings, spring, hibernate, creating custom components.
If you and other users to be don't ask for specific documentation, how should we be able to provide you with what you need/want?
Just saying: there is no documentation, or not enough doesn't cut it.
So, please, tell us before you either leave us, or before you know Wicket too good, what do you need, what are you looking for?
Martijn
On 11/17/05, Sam Gendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yeah, partially you are just seeing my frustration at the framework
evaluation process. I know struts backwards and forwards, but the
deficiencies of that framework are all too well known. The same goes
for webwork. I really want to use a component based framework, but
echo/echo2 just doesn't have enough community support/active
developers, and it has issues with maintaining too much state between
requests. Tapestry puts too much logic in the templates and has an
obnoxious syntax for the template logic. However, it is a mature
product with solid docs and even a book or two written about it, not
to mention the support of the jakarta universe. Even rumour I've
heard about wicket screams to me that it is the framework I want, but
every time I try to dig in, i find it incredibly frustrating.
Generally, I'm as good at picking up new technology, especially web
development technology, as any developer I've come across, so if I'm
having this much trouble getting up to speed with wicket, then what
about the rest of my team once they have to begin trying to write
code. Simple apps from the examples are easy enough, but the
complexity of the examples gets exponentially incomprehensible as the
sophistication of the app increases, often making great big leaps of
complexity between one exmaple and the next. We don't have the luxury
of adding sophistication incrementally, so we have to be able to
maximize the value of the framework almost immediately, and that is
very difficult given the current state of the docs. Browsing
javadocs, hoping that the name of the class that provides the
functionality I'm looking for will be sufficiently obvious to jump out
at me doesn't really cut it when there is a team of 12 developers
being held up while we guess as to a solution. The more I explore, the
more I want to use wicket, but the less I think I can actually afford
to. My only option is to assume that I can come up to speed fast
enough to stay one step ahead of my team, writing the relevant docs
and style guidelines before they need them, but I don't have any
confidence I'll be able to do so. That leaves me looking at Tapestry
(or some model 2 framework, god forbid), which I find very
frustrating.
In short, first impressions count for a lot in the kind of analysis
I'm trying to perform, and Wicket does not yet cut the mustard on
that score. It reminds me of Zope, circa mid 1999. Super easy to do
the simplest things, but add a little sophistication, and you'd better
know exactly how everything works internally or it'll be like beating
your head against a wall.
Should I wind up using it (currently, I doubt it), I'll be sure to
submit any docs I write back to the various projects.
--sam
On 11/16/05, Eelco Hillenius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yeah, the fact that is tells you to check out the wicket-stuff module
> is bad. We should fix that. But for the rest... it pretty basic cvs
> stuff to figure out what modules are in the repository. Works the same
> for all open source cvs projects out there. Anyway in case you are
> still interested in evaluating, you probably would want to check out
> the component reference of wicket examples first, as that gives you a
> nice overview of the components that Wicket delivers with the core
> distro. After that the telephone example is a nice one to look at some
> more typical application development features.
>
> Eelco
>
> On 11/16/05, Sam Gendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Yeah, the answer lies in the fact that the shell-based cvs commands in
> > the wicket-stuff documentation are utterly broken. Never mind that
> > there is no visible line break between the two separate cvs commands,
> > but it also says to check out the wicket-stuff module, which is merely
> > the source for the wicket-stuff sourceforge site. In reality, since
> > there is no list of available modules provided anywhere, and the link
> > to the viewcvs displays the same wicket-stuff module that the cvs
> > command downloads, you have to checkout '.' rather than wicket-stuff,
> > although this is entirely non-obvious without reading the maven
> > commands listed on the same page. Note that the maven commands
> > appear, from my limited understanding of maven, to be correct. It
> > does check out '.', which pulls the entire wicket-stuff project,
> > including all the modules you listed.
> >
> > --sam
> >
> >
> > On 11/16/05, Eelco Hillenius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Well, there's:
> > >
> > > wicket-contrib-spring-examples
> > > wicket-contrib-examples
> > > wicket-contrib-examples-hibernate3
> > > wicket-contrib-freemarker
> > > wicket-contrib-fvalidate
> > > wicket-contrib-gmap
> > > wicket-contrib-gmap-examples
> > > wicket-contrib-groovy
> > > wicket-contrib-jasperreports
> > > wicket-contrib-navmenu
> > > wicket-contrib-palette
> > > wicket-contrib-palette-examples
> > > wicket-contrib-scriptaculous
> > > wicket-contrib-scriptaculous-examples
> > > wicket-contrib-spring
> > > wicket-contrib-tinymce
> > > wicket-contrib-tinymce-examples
> > > wicket-contrib-velocity
> > > wicketeer
> > > wicket-examples
> > > wicket-extensions
> > > wicket-phonebook
> > >
> > > to name a few.
> > >
> > > Eelco
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/16/05, Sam Gendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> > > > Wicket-examples, wicket-phonebook don't seem to exist, and
> > > > wicket-stuff is apparently nothing but the source code to the
> > > > sourceforge web page about wicket-stuff. What am I missing here?
> > > >
> > > > --sam
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 11/16/05, Igor Vaynberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> > > > > hi Sam,
> > > > >
> > > > > Re components:
> > > > > check out the component reference in the wicket-examples project. it is
> > > > > farily complete and shows components in isolation so you can play around
> > > > > with them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Re hibernate integration:
> > > > > check out the wicket-phonebook project from wicket-stuff cvs. it is a
> > > > > simple example of a wicket/spring/hibernate project. wicket-phonebook has
> > > > > great javadoc that will explain what everything is.
> > > > >
> > > > > Re creating components:
> > > > > this is the strength of wicket. you just extend one of the base classes
> > > > > such as Component or WebMarkupContainer or extend any other component and
> > > > > away you go. checkout the code that drives components in the component
> > > > > reference its so simple it speaks for itself.
> > > > >
> > > > > Re documentation:
> > > > > yes this is something we do not have a lot of, we are working on it. what
> > > > > we do have right now is great javadoc. i got started just by looking at the
> > > > > examples and the code that drives them. wicket felt so natural i just picked
> > > > > it up ( but i did come from a strong tapestry background ). imho the best
> > > > > way to evaluate a framwork is to try and build a small project with it so
> > > > > you get the feel for it.
> > > > >
> > > > > this list is a great place to get support.
> > > > > if you have any questions feel free to email them to the list.
> > > > >
> > > > > btw, wicket-examples and wicket-phonebook both have jetty-launcher in a
> > > > > class called Start, so if you use eclise just right click and do debug as
> > > > > java app, that will start up jetty and you are ready to go as opposed to
> > > > > package/redeploy cycle.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Igor
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 11/16/05, Sam Gendler < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > OK, so I've been all over the wicket sourceforge site, and I must be
> > > > > > missing something. Where is the documentation? There are some fairly
> > > > > > basic examples that don't go into much detail, the new user guide in
> > > > > > the wiki which is incomplete whenever it gets interesting. The wicket
> > > > > > stuff section lists a hibernate tool, but doesn't provide a link to
> > > > > > anything. I see many references to how great wicket is with hibernate,
> > > > > > but I've never seen a doc that describes how someone would actually
> > > > > > use wicket with hibernate. Perhaps most importantly, I've never found
> > > > > > a simple description of the components that are available (or how to
> > > > > > implement new ones), let alone how to use them. Do I really have to
> > > > > > extract all of this from the javadocs and source code?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm trying to evaluate frameworks for a large development project, and
> > > > > > from all the hype, wicket seems to be a nice solution, but it is
> > > > > > basically not evaluatable, since, apparently, the only way to learn
> > > > > > anything about it is to get deep enough into a development project to
> > > > > > overcome the learning curve and total lack of documentation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Am I missing something here?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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Living a wicket life...
Martijn Dashorst - http://www.jroller.com/page/dashorst
Wicket 1.1 is out: http://wicket.sourceforge.net/wicket-1.1
