Thanks Oslmar and Vicenç. Regarding your questions, Vicenç: 1. yes 2. yes 3. yes, you understood correctly.
Aubrey On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Vicenç Riullop <vriul...@hotmail.com>wrote: > Good news, and good work! > Let me summarize it, from a non lawyer point of view, to check if I > undestood it: > 1. Old monuments are not copyrighted > 2. MiBAC grants that I can license a photo under CC-BY-SA without paying > any fee > 3. Is up to third parties to pay the fee to sopraintendenza if they wish > to use it for commercial purposes, and this is not any restriction related > with CC-BY-SA > > Vicenç > > ------------------------------ > Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 14:56:45 +0200 > From: zanni.andre...@gmail.com > To: wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: [Wiki Loves Monuments] MIBAC agreement for Wiki Loves Monuments > in Italy > > > Dear all, > > Great news from Italy! After over one year of talks between Wikimedia > Italia and MiBAC, the Italian Ministry of Cultural and Artistic Heritage > (MiBAC is a quasi-acronym from its official Italian denomination "Ministero > per i Beni e le Attività Culturali"), we have managed to sign an agreement > which will allow us to participate to Wiki Loves Monuments in a much > broader way that we could before. MiBAC explicitly states in the agreement > that *«the Ministry considers particularly useful, in order to promote > awareness of such goods [the ones managed by the Ministry - note that this > is different from "owned by the Ministry", see below], the production of > specific items about them on wikipedia.org, in all its languages, and the > publication of images on Wikimedia Commons, at the site > http://commons.wikimedia.org.» <http://commons.wikimedia.org.xn--yba/>* > Moreover, > it will explicitly ask to its local branches to give us the list of > "lesser" monuments, those which are not usually known but are nonetheless > beautiful... and poorly described in Wikipedia. Italian law however puts > some constraints unrelated to copyright issues: this means that the > pictures uploaded must bear the the template {{Italy-MiBAC-disclaimer}}[1]. > The text of the disclaimer is shown below; to understand what it actually > means we put up this text, which provides a bit of context about the > history of the agreement and the Italian law. > > As you know, Wiki Loves Monuments started in 2010, and went European in > 2011. Wikimedia Italy wanted to participate to that edition, but we > discovered a great obstacle to the project, a law called "Codice Urbani"[2]. > > "Codice Urbani" is an Italian law which states, among other provisions, > that to publish pictures of "cultural goods" (meaning in theory every > cultural and artistical object/place) for commercial purposes it is > mandatory to obtain an authorization from the local branch of the Ministry > of Arts and Cultural Heritage, the "Soprintendenza"[3]. The Superintendence > can require the payment of a fee; moreover, the authorization granted is > will be for the requester only (usually a publishing company) and only for > a given publication. Personal use and use for study and research are > allowed without a request for authorization. You certainly noticed that > Codice Urbani is problematic for a smooth realization of Wiki Loves > Monuments. In fact, I can make pictures of monuments I can give up my > copyright allowing others to copy my image without requiring my explicit > permission; but the Codice Urbani says that if I want to publish those > picture a fee can be requested to me, so anyway a third party can't make > profit out of my picture without asking in advance an authorization to the > Soprintendenza. This issue is completely independent from any issue > regarding copyright: Coliseum and the Leaning Tower fall (no pun intended) > under Codice Urbani. So we were in difficulty in organizing a photocampaign > in Italy and asking people to (potentially) break the Italian law, since > the unclear points where many. > > We started challenging this problems in Summer 2011: we contacted people > from the Ministry, we set up a draft of the project, we met once in Rome to > speak with high delegates. To make a long story short, we managed to obtain > the promise of receiving the lists of the monuments which could be > photographed: but then things slowed down, our contacts were moved to other > offices, and the Ministry himself (who was aware of the project) was > replaced or political reasons (unrelated to WLM, of course). Thus, we could > not participate in WLM 2011. > > In December 2011 we started working out a new strategy: meanwhile, as you > can imagine, endless discussions were made in our mailing lists. We > contacted NEXA Center for Internet and Society[4a], an institution from the > University of Turin which supports and promotes Creative Commons: they are > actually the official contact for Creative Commons in Italy! We decided to > allocate some resources and hired Deborah De Angelis[4b], a lawyer > specialized in Creative Commons and cultural heritage. Deborah, who is > based in Rome, started contacting again the (renewed) Ministry of Cultural > Heritage, proposing a draft for an agreement between the Ministry and > Wikimedia Italia. Several months of discussions and bouncing of documents > followed. > > In January Wikimedia Italy also hired a Project Manager for Wiki Loves > Monuments, Emma Tracanella. Emma started developing and pursuing another > tactic developed by WMI to get permission for taking pictures of monuments: > asking directly the authorization to specific municipalities and > institutions. In fact, it is the "owners" of a monument who have the right > to authorize pictures of it. It's Codice Urbani itself which gives them > these rights, indeed. > > Thus, we had two strategies: one top-down, that is discussing with the > MiBac to obtain an agreement clearly stating that we could organize Wiki > Loves Monuments in Italy, and explaining which were the boundaries of the > law (the dream here would have been to change the law itself, but we would > have needed to bring the issue in Parliament, and more urged matters > pressed); the other bottom-up, that is asking the permissions to the single > institutions. Note that the bottom-up strategy meant having to deal with > 8000+ different municipalities, endless cultural institutions, uncountable > churches (every parish priest has the right for is own parish, unless this > is in some special list from the Ministry). We let you imagine the > complexity of the landscape that was opening in front of us: it was a > nightmare, but at least it could give us some "free" monuments. > > Emma started making calls to everyone who could give us authorization for > taking photo of monuments. We started spreading the word, calling friends > of friends for help, starting a blog (our wikilovesmonuments.it), begging > for authorization everywhere. We had a great ally in APT Services, the > Tourist office for Emilia Romagna, with which we already partnered in the > past for some Wikipedia-related projects; they organized meetings with > mayors and regional politicians. In the end, we reached different regions > and provinces, and several municipalities (here there is a list[5]). Our > list of monuments counts in hundreds, and it's still improving everyday > (here there is a map of the lists[6]). A drop in the ocean, if you think at > the enormous Italian cultural heritage: but it is all we managed to get. > > This up to yesterday. Today, we had finally an answer from MiBAC, and it > was positive. The Ministry signed an agreement with Wikimedia Italia saying > that: > > - the Ministry, with the aim of promoting the knowledge of the Italian > Cultural Heritage, finds useful that the monuments have an article on > Wikipedia with photographs. (yes, it is *actually* saying that). > - the Ministry will send an internal communication asking to every > Soprintendenza to send us a list of the monuments they control, along with > a permission to take photos of them. Pics of these monuments can be > released in CC-BY-SA, in the sense that the maker of the photograph can > relinquish his own rights; no fee is needed to be paid to the monuments' > owners by the photographer if he does not want to use them for commercial > purposes. > > As part of the agreement, we however have to add a disclaimer to the > pictures; the one in {{Italy-MiBAC-disclaimer}}. The text of the advice is > shown below: > *This image reproduces a property belonging to the Italian cultural > heritage as entrusted to the Italian government. Such images are regulated > by Articles 106 et seq. of the Italian Code of Cultural Heritage and > Landscape under Legislative Decree No. 42, dated January 22, 2004, and its > subsequent amendments. These regulations, unrelated to copyright > regulations, establish a system for the protection Italy’s historic and > artistic heritage and its standards of dignity. Among other things, these > regulations provide for the payment of a concession fee by those who intend > to benefit economically from reproductions of property belonging to the > Italian cultural heritage. Reproduction of this image is permitted for > personal use or study. A further authorization by the Italian Ministry of > Heritage and Culture is required for reproduction for any other purpose, > and particularly for commercial use. Such commercial use includes, but is > not limited to, use in (a) any form of advertising, and (b) any company > name, logo, trademark, image, activity, or product.* > > Our lawyers (which are people from Creative Commons Italy) assure us that > this license is compatible with CC-BY-SA, because the provisions of the > license, which deals only with intellectual propriety, is saved and the > limitation occurs on another, different, level. In other words, the > photographer releases the picture in CC-BY-SA, the Ministry allows to put > it on Commons waiving its own right to get a fee, but Codice Urbani keeps > staying in force, protecting the pics from automatic commercial use by > third parties. To be more explicit, please have a look the the section 5 of > the Legal Code of Creative Commons CC-BY-SA-3.0 [7], which we are quoted > below: boldface is ours. > *5. Representations, Warranties and Disclaimer* *Unless otherwise > mutually agreed to by the parties in writing, licensor offers the work > as-is and makes no representations or warranties of any kind concerning the > work, express, implied, statutory or otherwise, including, without > limitation, warranties of title, merchantibility, fitness for a > particular purpose, noninfringement, or the absence of latent or other > defects, accuracy, or the presence of absence of errors, whether or not > discoverable. Some jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion of implied > warranties, so such exclusion may not apply to you* > > As you may see, it's true that the author of the photo cannot vouch for > the merchantability of the images, since this is not a right of his/her; > but CC-BY-SA explicitly takes into account that case. > > To the best of our knowledge, this agreement is the first one of its kind > in Italy, and sees an official recognition of the existence of Creative > Commons licenses; moreover, it is a necessary step towards new regulations > recognizing the importance of the free dissemination of information about > the cultural and artistic heritage, which cannot just be "museum stuff". We > are thrilled to see what will come out, and how Italians will answer to > this challenge. We are very proud to have obtained this. > > Feel free to ask us anything you think relevant, we'll do what we can to > answer. We are also open to prepare some FAQ, if we see the need for them. > > Best regards, > Cristian and Andrea > on behalf of the Wiki Loves Monuments organizing committee in Italy > References > > [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Italy-MiBAC-disclaimer > > [2] http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codice_Urbani > > [3] http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soprintendenze > > [4a] http://nexa.polito.it/ > > [4b] http://nexa.polito.it/fellows > > [5] http://www.wikilovesmonuments.it/istituzioni/ > > [6] http://www.wikilovesmonuments.it/monumenti/lista-monumenti/ ; also on > wiki at: > http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progetto:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2012/Monumenti > > [7] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode > > _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments > mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >
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