Hi Jean-Frédéric, Thanks for the links! I experimented with WLM-Monumental for a bit, and it seems that it does indeed display natural heritage sites and natural reserves as well (which is the concern that I mentioned in my previous email). For instance, searching around my area, I get https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q8023299 and https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q65099475 in addition to other actual monuments.
If this is intended behaviour, we are more than happy to go with P1435. Best regards, Josephine On Thu, 6 May 2021 at 01:51, Jean-Frédéric <jeanfrederic.w...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Rebecca, > > Just to say I strongly disagree on your characterisation of the use of >> this ID as a "hack" and that it should be actively discouraged. Not all >> countries are as fortunate as others, and having comprehensive coverage of >> all the relevant sites on Wikipedia with unique identifiers from state >> bodies is a massive hurdle to overcome for many of us. Assuming that the >> whole world can meet you at the standard you are accustomed to is >> incredibly unfair, and dismisses the difficulties many countries face in >> this regard. >> >> In the Irish context we have found the P2186 a very neat solution to a >> systemic issue we face regarding data on Irish monuments and other listed >> buildings, and in the 4 years since we started using those IDs with >> Monumental, it has not only facilitated a huge amount of participation, but >> the Irish system has not been updated to a point that we have >> another system of unique IDs to fall back on. And this is an EU country >> with supposedly all the benefits that that entails. An alternative >> "scalable solution" has yet to otherwise manifest. >> >> Fair enough if you don't like a particular system of IDs, but I don't >> think completely writing it off is fair on those for whom it has been >> incredibly useful. >> > > I think that what Maarten meant to say is that, in the pre-Wikidata era, > the requirement to have a unique ID for monuments (in the Wikipedia lists, > in the UploadWizard and in all the rest of the tooling) led to the creation > of the "WLM ID" for such countries that indeed did not have an ID system. > > But now, any monument with a Wikidata item, whether or not it is part of a > national ID system, will have an identifier: the Q-ID itself − hence why > (at first glance at least) there is no need anymore for the legacy custom > ID. As I understand it, P2186 was only ever meant as a transitional > measure, so that whatever was relying on the previously assigned WLM-ID > could have a path to get to the Qids. > > I would also like to point out that just using "heritage designation" is >> potentially quite problematic. For example, here in Ireland a huge number >> of national monuments and listed structures are private property (in the >> case of the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage, private homes, >> hospitals, care homes) which may have Wikidata items, but for the purposes >> of Wiki Loves Monuments we cannot be seen to encourage people to trespass >> or infringe on people's property or privacy by including them on a map or >> other upload platform. Having the WLM ID allows for greater control over >> what structures are within the remit of the competition, and protects not >> only us as the organisers, but our participants as well. >> > > Ah, I see! You are effectively using P2186 as a way to curate a subset of > P1435. That’s a neat trick ; before deprecating P2186 we should indeed find > a suitable way to achieve the same result. > > > @Josephine: Rebecca mentioned Monumental − indeed Monumental already had > to solve the same problem (querying Wikidata for monuments, displaying them > on a map, allowing upload with the right templates/etc.). Was there ever an > issue with the way monumental does it? If not, I’d suggest using that > methodology as starting point. > > I believe the relevant source code for it is: > * For WLM-Monumental (ie https://maps.wikilovesmonuments.org/) : > https://github.com/hatnote/monumental-wlm/blob/master/src/services/campaigns.service.js > * For classic Monumental (ie https://monumental.toolforge.org/ ): > https://github.com/hatnote/monumental/blob/HEAD/src/components/main/dashboard/dashboard.js#L97-L123 > > -- > Jean-Frédéric > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >
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