> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:13 AM, David Gerard <dger...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> de:wp convinced you. What would it take to convince you on en:wp? (I'm >> asking for a clear objective criterion here. If you can only offer a >> subjective one, please explain how de:wp convinced you when en:wp >> hasn't.) >> > > [Speaking personally, not for the VE team in any way.] > > Why should a consensus of any arbitrary number of power editors be > allowed > to define the defaults for all editors, including anonymous and > newly-registered people? Anonymous edits make up about 1/3 of enwiki > edits, > IIRC. Every day, 3,000-5,000 new accounts are registered on English > Wikipedia. These people are not even being asked to participate in these > RFCs. Even if they were, they typically don't know how to participate and > find it very intimidating. > > This system of gauging the success of VE is heavily biased toward the > concerns of people most likely to dislike change in the software and > frankly, to not really need VE in its current state. That doesn't mean > they're wrong, just that they don't speak for everyone's perspective. The > sad fact is that the people who stand to benefit the most from continued > use and improvements to VE can't participate in an RFC about it, in part > because of wikitext's complexities and annoyances. It is a huge failure > of > the consensus process and the Wikimedia movement if we pretend that it's > truly open, fair, and inclusive to make a decision about VE this way. > > In WMF design and development, we work our butts off trying to do > research, > design, and data analysis that guides us toward building for _all_ the > stakeholders in a feature. We're not perfect at it by a long shot, but I > don't see a good faith effort by English and German Wikipedians running > these RFCs to solicit and consider the opinions of the huge number of > new/anonymous editors. And why should they? That's not their job, they > just > want to express their frustration and be listened to. > > To answer David's question: I think we need a benchmark for making VE > opt-in again that legitimately represents the needs of _all the people_ > who > stand to benefit from continuing the rapid pace of bug fixing and feature > additions. I don't think an on-wiki RFC is it. > > Steven
Let me confess, I hate all new things. I hate the constantly changing complicated wiki markup and I hate the new editor, cause I don't know how to work it even if it would be simpler if I were starting from scratch. The point was to design an editor that would be better for casual and new editors; I have nothing whatever to add from my own experience because I can't duplicate from my experience that of a casual or new editor. Fred _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
