On May 28, 2014 7:09 PM, "Wil Sinclair" <w...@wllm.com> wrote: > > Thanks, I wasn't aware I could do this. I'm assuming that it would be > obvious who was an employee at Wikimedia in the log, too. I posted the > following to Wikipediocracy a few minutes ago: > > " > I may have misread which page the rev was on, or I misunderstood the > person who said s/he revdeleted it in thinking that it had been > revdeleted in the previous few minutes. This is exactly why I prefer > public recorded forums. Now no one can go back to clear up the > confusion. For all I know, I might have to apologize for a > misunderstanding, and it would really suck if I somehow misrepresented > things and didn't have any opportunity to straighten things out. > > Of course, it is entirely on me. I knew that the IRC channels weren't > logged, and that it was a bannable offense to log them (for those who > aren't familiar with IRC, this essentially means that you aren't > supposed to save conversations there; in most channels that's A-OK, > but on all of the most used wikipedia channels it seems to be > disallowed).
I think you may have misunderstood. Public logging is not allowed, but it's fine to keep logs for yourself. I wouldn't mind public logging myself, by the way. Next time I have a concern, I will take it to wikimedia-l > or one of the other mailing lists. As this example also shows, one > can't be sure that the revs on a page within Wikimedia's wikis > themselves won't be redacted after-the-fact. I'm not expressing an > opinion about whether stuff should be redacted or on what grounds, but > I am asserting that it is possible to do so. > " Your observation is correct. It is possible to delete revisions from history. This will be logged. I'm a little surprised you seem surprised by this. Am I misunderstanding what you mean? > > There is a discussion about this issue there, as well. It can be > followed at the link I posted earlier. Here's the last page of the > discussion that includes the comment above: > http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4680&p=96600#p96600 > > ,Wil > > On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Risker <risker...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Wil, the deletion log of the page in question is publicly visible. There > > are no WMF employees who have deleted anything on that page, ever. This is > > information you can check for yourself instead of relying on the words of > > others. > > > > Risker > > > > > > On 28 May 2014 12:23, Wil Sinclair <w...@wllm.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi Fae, if you're referring to the discussion on this page, then I > >> think I make it quite clear why I won't engage with WMF employees > >> going forward: > >> http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4680&start=150. > >> > >> To be sure, I'm not used to having anyone from Lila's team immediately > >> emailing her through their official company addresses as soon as I ask > >> a question in a public forum. In this case, the WMF has made it quite > >> clear that the IRC channels aren't official and/or sponsored by the > >> WMF, and I was asking about community affairs WRT to those channels. > >> So my question about why a user was kicked from the channel didn't > >> have anything to do with the WMF. I still don't understand why this > >> employee felt it was necessary to bring Lila's attention to "safety > >> concerns" through official WMF employee channels, although I'm sure he > >> or she felt it was the right thing to do and I've given them the > >> benefit of the doubt that it was. Of course, I can't form my own > >> independent opinion, since a WMF employee revdeleted the rev in > >> question in the ~10 minutes between when it was first posted and when > >> I tried clicking on the link. > >> > >> In any case, it should be made clear that the WMF did not ask me to > >> disengage with employees and has not yet asked me to stop posting to > >> Wikipediocracy directly. So far, the organization itself has respected > >> my individuality; I can only appeal to everyone in the WP community > >> and all WMF employees to do the same in the future. I will be engaging > >> with the broader WP community in whatever way I can, but I've made the > >> hard decision to limit my engagement with WMF employees to public, > >> logged forums from now on. > >> > >> ,Wil > >> > >> On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 5:59 AM, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > On 28/05/2014, Lila Tretikov <l...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > >> > ... > >> >> independent individual > >> >> able to speak with his own voice and ask his own questions. He does not > >> >> take direction from me. He will not work for the WMF or engage with the > >> WMF > >> >> employees. > >> > > >> > Thanks for making these distinctions. It is sad to see that your time > >> > and energy is being used so early on in your introduction to the > >> > Wikimedia community, in creating a political distance between yourself > >> > and the public actions of your life partner, due to his casual > >> > curiosity about Wikimedia projects. A curiosity that only manifested > >> > itself shortly after the public announcement of your employment by the > >> > Foundation board. > >> > > >> > I do not really understand the point being made about not "engaging" > >> > with WMF employees, any active volunteer on Wikimedia projects should > >> > and must be free to engage with WMF employees. The statement does not > >> > appear to match actions over the last 24 hours, with Wil freely making > >> > public comments about his dissatisfaction after conversations > >> > (emails?) with some WMF employees. > >> > > >> > Thanks again for clarifying your position during this difficult start > >> > to your engagement. > >> > > >> > Fae > >> > -- > >> > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > >> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l , > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org< https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
