Magnus, you've missed the point of the visual editor revolt. A couple of people here have tried to explain that to you, politely. And you're persisting with your idée fixe.
There were two parts to the visual editor catastrophe, actually. The product wasn't ready for anyone to use. Not veteran editors. Not newbies. Newbies who used it were less likely to successfully complete an edit. It was broken, and the WMF insisted we had to use it. The second part of the problem was arrogance. Yes, a few editors were unnecessarily rude about the product and the developers. But then most of the developers and tech staff who dealt with the community arrogantly characterised *anyone* who complained about the product as an ignorant, selfish Ludite - and you're persisting with that characterisation now. The WMF under Lila has learned the lessons from that, and they have fostered a much healthier relationship between the developers and the community. You clearly haven't learned all you might have. In fact, reading the arrogant responses from you here and in the concurrent thread titled "How to disseminate free knowledge," and from Denny in earlier threads addressing criticism of WikiData, it seems to me there is still a significant arrogance problem that needs addressing, at least over at WikiData. Some people may approach you arrogantly, maybe even insultingly, about an innovation, and I suppose you might be justified in talking down to them or ridiculing them (though I advise against it.). But if you can't distinguish them from those who approach you with genuine concerns and well-founded criticisms, then no matter how clever you think your technical solutions are, you will soon find you're no more welcome here than those WMF staffers who thought insulting well-meaning critics was a good career move. Denny's contemptuous dismissal of valid criticisms of his project, and your contemptuous dismissal of the valid criticisms of the early visual editor and its launch are both very disappointing. Anthony Cole On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 7:24 AM, Magnus Manske <magnusman...@googlemail.com> wrote: > The iPhone was a commercial success because it let you do the basic > functions easily and intuitively, and looked shiny at the same time. We do > not charge a price; our "win" comes by people using our product. If we can > present the product in such a way that more people use it, it is a success > for us. > > I do stand by my example :-) > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 10:37 PM Michael Peel <em...@mikepeel.net> wrote: > > > > > > On 18 Jan 2016, at 22:35, Magnus Manske <magnusman...@googlemail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > As one can be overly conservative, one can also be overly > enthusiastic. I > > > would hope the Foundation by now understands better how to handle new > > > software releases. Apple here shows the way: Basic functionality, but > > > working smoothly first. > > > > But at a huge cost premium? I'm not sure that's a good example to make > > here. :-/ > > > > Thanks, > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
