The Signpost has just published the October 2015 email exchange between James and Jimmy - the exchange that Jimmy wouldn't release.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-04-24/Op-ed Thank you Signpost. Anthony Cole On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Anthony Cole <ahcole...@gmail.com> wrote: > This is getting ridiculous. > > Jimmy, you quoted from an email exchange with James. James claims this > selective quoting distorted the nature of the exchange. You have been asked > to publish the entire exchange. The only other party to that exchange > (James) wants it published. As Fae and others have repeatedly pointed out, > you may simply redact any confidential board information. Your explanations > for not releasing the whole exchange are an insult to our intelligence and > your refusal to do so is a display of contempt. > > James is a genuine leader and spokesperson, elected by the community. > > What are you? > > You happened to be there when your failed encyclopaedia, thanks to Larry's > idea to use a wiki and thanks to the energy and determination of the > community, exploded before your eyes into this amazing thing. > > Now, you pretend to be the genius behind Wikipedia. Now, you pose as the > humanitarian who gave away the encyclopaedia because "it was the right > thing to do" (when, in reality, you relinquished it because the community > wouldn't allow you to monetise it). Now, you make a nice living off this > charade. > > You can take that story with you and, I'm sure, for a while at least, > you'll still be able to dine out on it. But you're in the way here. It's > time to move on from the board and from your self-appointed role as > "spokesperson for the community". > > We need honest, hard working people who genuinely represent us in a > public-facing role, not a deceitful, self-aggrandising, opportunistic > squatter. > > > Anthony Cole > > > On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Oliver Keyes <ironho...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Saturday, 23 April 2016, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > Hoi, >> > Governance worth a damn... <grin> Did you know that I introduced Jan >> Bart >> > to Jimmy </grin> the rest is also history. >> >> >> Yes Gerard, you're very very important. Much more so than me. Well done. >> >> > >> > But honestly. In the final analysis the more importance is given to the >> > board, the more it shows a dysfunctional movement. When governance is so >> > relevant, the first thing to do is not to micro-manage. That is what the >> > board is not supposed to do and when something did not go right, >> remember >> > that they are people. Ask yourself how we as a movement suffer instead >> or >> > when you find that a certain behaviour did not win the beauty contest. >> > >> > >> I know the board are people. I also know the people their actions affect >> are people. I am agreed that the board is too prominent - see also the >> spinoff thread - and given too much importance. But when the board sets >> direction on almost everything that costs money, it's function or >> dysfunction is absolutely an 'important thing' >> >> I'm going to drop this thread because it is relatively clear we are not >> making any progress, in either direction, on convincing the other one >> we're >> right. But hey, at least neither of us demanded the other question their >> own sanity :p >> >> >> > This whole affair is backward. It does not help us forward, it does >> hinder >> > and it takes energy away from those things that really matter. >> > Thanks, >> > GerardM >> > >> > On 17 April 2016 at 22:13, Oliver Keyes <ironho...@gmail.com >> > <javascript:;>> wrote: >> > >> > > On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Gerard Meijssen >> > > <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote: >> > > > Hoi, >> > > > So when as a result of your yihad the worst of what you imagine >> comes >> > > out, >> > > > the most you have achieved is that you can say "this is why I think >> he >> > is >> > > > an asshole". Then what. It does not change a thing. We are still >> intend >> > > on >> > > > sharing the sum of all knowledge. You still have to do a lot of >> > > convincing >> > > > before most other people would agree with you. >> > > > >> > > > The problem with your single issue approach is achieves more turmoil >> > than >> > > > anything else. I fail to understand people like you. It is no longer >> > > about >> > > > what we hope to achieve. I have tried to engage you in meaningful >> talk >> > > but >> > > > for me it failed. >> > > >> > > From what I can see, "what we hope to achieve" is governance worth a >> > > damn. It's people in key positions not using those positions as >> > > weapons. It's people taking empathy and consideration and fiduciary >> > > duties seriously. Now, if the absence of these doesn't affect you, I'm >> > > profoundly jealous, but the fact that you do not understand why >> > > Jimmy's behaviour makes it difficult to claim he's a suitable >> > > participant in Wikimedia's governance does not change that a lot of >> > > other people do have concerns - not just me, not just Andreas. >> > > >> > > > >> > > > The one question that I have. In all your hiha I have not understood >> > that >> > > > you understand what it is what Jimmy uniquely brings to our >> community. >> > He >> > > > is really effective as an ambassador for what we do. In this there >> is >> > > noone >> > > > who can replace him. How do you want to replace him. Arguably the >> > latest >> > > > crop of board members have shown how hard it is in the first place >> to >> > > make >> > > > a meaningful contribution. >> > > >> > > Who said anything about replacing him as an ambassador? When Jimmy is >> > > mentioned in the media it's in the context of being Wikipedia's >> > > founder, not one of a dozen-odd board members, and unless there's an >> > > IEG for the invention of a TARDIS I don't think anyone is removing his >> > > founder status. The question is simply whether he is a suitable person >> > > to indefinitely sit on the Board of Trustees, making governance >> > > decisions, given the behaviour he has shown. >> > > >> > > > Thanks, >> > > > GerardM >> > > > >> > > > On 17 April 2016 at 20:20, Andreas Kolbe <jayen...@gmail.com >> > <javascript:;>> wrote: >> > > > >> > > >> On March 21, Jimmy posted excerpts from an email conversation he'd >> had >> > > with >> > > >> James Heilman on his Wikipedia user talk page, making further >> > > allegations >> > > >> against James.[1] >> > > >> >> > > >> James replied twice: >> > > >> >> > > >> <quote> >> > > >> >> > > >> Jimmy Wales' summary above of our email correspondence is far from >> > > >> complete, and is not an accurate representation of the overall >> > > discussion. >> > > >> Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:22, 24 March 2016 (UTC) >> > > >> >> > > >> Jimbo, you quoted some passages of our mails above. Would you have >> any >> > > >> objection to my posting the complete exchange, so that the parts >> you >> > > quoted >> > > >> can be seen in context? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:09, >> 31 >> > > March >> > > >> 2016 (UTC) >> > > >> >> > > >> <end of quote> >> > > >> >> > > >> Jimmy Wales ignored the latter question until the thread was >> archived. >> > > >> >> > > >> So – will the community get to see the complete exchange or not, so >> > that >> > > >> everyone can judge for themselves how it was misrepresented by >> Jimmy's >> > > >> selective quoting? >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> [1] >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_206#What_James_said_publicly_.282.29 >> > > >> >> > > >> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com >> <javascript:;>> >> > wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >> > If we are going to have more elections, can we please hold Jimmy >> to >> > > >> > account this year rather than waiting for him to leave the board >> > under >> > > >> > his own steam? >> > > >> > >> > > >> > His use of "utter fucking bullshit", then using these distraction >> > > >> > politics to avoid answering basic questions intended to deal with >> > his >> > > >> > repeated public allegations of lying against a respected >> community >> > > >> > member, is not what the Wikimedia movement needs or wants from a >> > > >> > Trustee, or someone who represents the movement to the press. >> > > >> > >> > > >> > If Jimmy were a WMF employee, he'd be gone by now. >> > > >> > >> > > >> > P.S. We are still waiting for Jimmy to publish his interviews >> with >> > WMF >> > > >> > employees resulting from his trip to SF, when he was claiming to >> act >> > > >> > for the WMF board, I can't be bothered to work out how many weeks >> > ago >> > > >> > that was. Is this sort of promise that Jimmy would call >> "bullshit" >> > if >> > > >> > it was yet another person he had an ongoing feud with? >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Fae >> > > >> > >> > > >> > On 11 April 2016 at 12:24, Andy Mabbett < >> a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk >> > <javascript:;>> >> > > >> wrote: >> > > >> > > On 23 March 2016 at 11:48, Andy Mabbett < >> > a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk <javascript:;>> >> > > >> > wrote: >> > > >> > >> On 23 March 2016 at 10:01, Jimmy Wales < >> jimmywa...@wikia-inc.com >> > <javascript:;>> >> > > >> > wrote: >> > > >> > >> >> > > >> > >>> But I did publish something on my user talk page that is >> > relevant. >> > > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> Diff, please. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Answer came there none... >> > > >> > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> > > >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> >> > > >> > Unsubscribe: >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >> > > , >> > > >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> >> > ?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > >> > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> >> > > >> Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >> > , >> > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> >> > ?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> >> > > > Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> >> > ?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> >> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >> , >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> >> > ?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> >> > ?subject=unsubscribe> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
