Lol Peter you hullarious, I thought this thread is exactly about how you could put the style Gerard writes his emails into his cultural context :)
Rupert On Jul 7, 2016 15:19, "Peter Southwood" <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > Gerard, > Since you appear to have little time for compassion, I will bluntly tell > you what many people here have appeared to be trying to get through to you > in more diplomatic language, and have made allowances for the fact that > English is not apparently your home language. > I/We find you unnecessarily blunt, rude and abrasive in your > communication. I don’t know if this is intentional, but gentle hints do not > seem to get through. We tolerate your language most of the time because we > value your input, but we do not like it. > I am not going to ask you to change your ways as it may not be possible, > or you may not want to do so. It is your choice. > Cheers, > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen > Sent: Thursday, 07 July 2016 10:00 AM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with > non-native English speakers > > Hoi, > You forget the other part that is so vital. Compassion is for the weak, it > puts you in a superior position. The problem is much more in the > understanding of what someone else has to say. It is not only about > sending, it is as much about receiving. Listening, understanding is where > we have a problem. Not so much in the choice of words. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 7 July 2016 at 09:50, Michael Jahn <michael.j...@wikimedia.de> wrote: > > > "it is not so much > > the words that are used but it is understanding what points are made > > and how they challenge the status quo." > > > > --> This may be true, and what we should strive for as a movement. But > > --> you > > still need words to make those points, and while one may fail to > > understand what points are being made, even if all the words are > > understood properly, the opposite makes the difference. If you _don't_ > > understand the words in the first place, i. e. attribute a different > > meaning than the speaker/author had intended, you _cannot_ be in a > > position to understand the points. > > So, thanks Nick, for sharing! I like your post very much. > > Michael > > Am 07.07.2016 9:35 vorm. schrieb "Gerard Meijssen" < > > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>: > > > > > Hoi, > > > I have been thinking about what you say. The problem I see is that > > > your attitude is one where you have to be compassionate for the > > > benefit of people for whom English is a second language. What this > > > means is that you see yourself as superior because your English is > > > so great and they have a problem with English or Anglo culture.The > > > logical conclusion is probably that English and Angloism has to be > central to what we do. > > > > > > This is the Wikimedia list and when you follow this list, it is > > > people > > from > > > all over the world that subscribe and comment. It is highly biased > > > by > > group > > > think and I have observed that there is little willingness to > > > consider notions that do not fit in well with the group think.The > > > biggest problem > > in > > > this is not language but an unwillingness to consider arguments. > > > > > > It is easy to say "we have to be compassionate" and because of that > > > we > > have > > > to choose our words well. It is tough to consider that it is not so > > > much the words that are used but it is understanding what points are > > > made and how they challenge the status quo. > > > Thanks, > > > GerardM > > > > > > On 5 July 2016 at 21:59, Nick Wilson (Quiddity) > > > <nwil...@wikimedia.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://medium.com/@mollyclare/taming-the-steamroller-how-to-communica > > te-compassionately-with-non-native-english-speakers-d95d8d1845a0 > > > > A good essay. > > > > > > > > TL;DR: Some detailed examples of how to improve communication and > > > > interactions, for the benefit of anyone who uses English as a > > > > second language. > > > > > > > > > > > > Excerpts, to whet [sharpen or stimulate] your appetite: > > > > > > > > > Phrasal verbs in English can be particularly hard to master. > > > > > Just > > think > > > > about “cut off” vs. “cut up” vs. “cut over” vs. “cut in” vs. “cut > out” > > > vs. > > > > “cut down” vs. “cut back” and you’ll see how confusing it can be > > > > when > > you > > > > recommend “cutting back” on something, or asking someone to “cut > > > > it > > out”. > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > Make your message very clear, especially your request. This is > > > > > doubly > > > > true for me, because I work with Germans, who are famously direct. > > > > The American habit of softening and burying a request is just > > > > confusing and pointless to them. > > > > > > > > > The last thing you and I want to do is overwhelm. We work across > > > language > > > > barriers, not because it’s glamorous or fun or easy, but because > > > > we > > care > > > > about collaborating with people who are different from us [...]. > > > > And non-native speakers are committing to this collaboration even > > > > more than > > > we > > > > are: they’re reaching out to us by working in English. [...] > > > > > > > > n.b. Yes, there are some over-generalizations and stereotypes in > there. > > > > It's still good overall, though! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to link it on Metawiki, but I'm not sure where; Any > > suggestions? > > > > I've gotten (happily) lost in the [[Multilingual]] disambig page, > > > > and > > the > > > > [[Grants:Learning patterns]] pages, but the only place I can find > > > > that collects advice like this, is the first section at > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/Manual#Guidelines - What > > page > > > > might I have missed? > > > > > > > > Quiddity > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscrib > > > > e> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4613/12573 - Release Date: 07/07/16 > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
