wikipedia offline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwix
On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:50 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz < psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote: > Le 27/02/2018 à 12:42, Vi to a écrit : > >> I see Amir's points, which are pretty reasonable, but I fear this would >> suit languages with a significant presence on the web. >> >> Among them I agree with points 1, 3 and 4 while I'm not sure about #2 >> "creating >> basic encyclopedic terminology and style in that language", if we want to >> preserve a language we shouldn't create a thing. >> > I think that here the term "preserving" is misinterpreted. It's not about > stuff it to put it in a nothing-should-move-anymore museum. It's about > preserving actual use of diverse language as diachronic phenomena, ie as > evolving objects. > > On this regard, even largest language communities are seeing their use > changing at an increasing pace, as recognize institutions like Académie > française (not quite your average neologismophilic neo-punk band). > > I think it's also good to recall that there are places where there is not > yet a a high bandwith reliable internet (or internet at all), but that > computer are accessibles. For example Libraries Without Borders[2] are > providing computer boxes, which do include some Wikimedia material if I'm > not mistaken. Although I'm not enough informed on their actions, but it > would interesting to be in contact with them if it's not already the case. > Making encyclopedia shared through travelling USB key would be surely > possible for example, but that just a sketched idea. > > On the other hand, should we recall that we are losing language diversity > at an increasing pace?[3] And of course when a language die, it's whole > culture which go with it like a bush medicine engraved in aboriginal > vocabulary.[4] So really it's not about bringing knowledge to communities > with less geopolitcally influence, it's about giving mankind a chance to > loose as few as possible of valuable knowledge by diffusing it omnidirectly. > > > [1] Parce qu’il doit être tout à la fois le greffier de l’usage, le témoin > de l’histoire et celui du changement le Dictionnaire de l’Académie aura > donc presque doublé de volume. En consacrant ainsi un très grand nombre de > mots nouveaux, l’Académie répond aux exigences du temps mais elle se montre > fidèle aussi à sa tradition. http://www.academie-francaise. > fr/la-langue-francaise-langue-de-la-modernite-seance-publique-annuelle > [2] https://www.librarieswithoutborders.org/ > [3] http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/unesco-half-worlds-languages-will- > disappear-by-2100-1498154 > [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_medicine > > > > By the way I was wondering my concerns about cultural colonization may be >> addressed -for wikis which has some contents (let's say at least 1000 >> articles)- by starting expanding existing articles instead of translating >> new ones. This would solve the problem of choosing what to translate >> though >> would leave problems about the perspective contents are created. >> >> Vito >> >> 2018-02-27 12:31 GMT+01:00 Amir E. Aharoni <amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> >> : >> >> 2018-02-27 13:00 GMT+02:00 mathieu stumpf guntz < >>> psychosl...@culture-libre.org>: >>> >>> >>>> Le 24/02/2018 à 18:08, Vi to a écrit : >>>> >>>> *finally I think paid translators would hardly turn into stable >>>>> Wikipedians. >>>>> >>>>> I think this misses an important point that is, we don't need the >>>>> >>>> initial >>> >>>> translator to turn into a sustaining editor, we need the article to >>>> >>> evolve >>> >>>> with call to action incentives. And articles which don't exist at all – >>>> even as a stub – or don't meet an audience of potential contributors >>>> will >>>> never catch such an evolving cycle. >>>> >>> >>> This is one of the issues with what I alluded to in my earlier email in >>> this thread: the privilege that the "big" languages have. It's the >>> privilege of already having other encyclopedias, textbooks, public >>> education, etc., in this language. A lot of languages don't have these >>> things. When you speak a language that has had these things before >>> Wikipedia came along, it's hard to perceive the world like a person who >>> speaks a language that doesn't perceives it. >>> >>> If you define the purpose of paying somebody to translate as "turning the >>> paid translator" into a sustaining editor, then this is indeed likely to >>> fail. >>> >>> But if you define the purpose differently, it may succeed. For example, >>> you >>> may define the purpose as one or more of the following: >>> * Demonstrating that it's possible to write an encyclopedia in that >>> language >>> * Creating basic encyclopedic terminology and style in that language >>> * Creating a bunch of basic articles that would appear in interlanguage >>> links in Wikipedias from bigger languages (English, French, etc.) >>> * Creating a bunch of basic articles that would appear in search results >>> from internet search engines >>> >>> The existence of these things may bring in people who will become >>> volunteer >>> sustaining editors. >>> >>> -- >>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי >>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com >>> “We're living in pieces, >>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >>> wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik >> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik >> i/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik > i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > -- "Cada cual según sus fuerzas, cada quien según sus necesidades..." _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
