I have no dog in this race, but facts are not eligible for copyright protection.
On Wed, Jul 4, 2018, 17:11 Andreas Kolbe <jayen...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:54 AM, Denny Vrandečić <vrande...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Gnom1 on Phabricator has offered to actually answer legal questions, but > we > > need to come up with the questions that we want to ask. > > > > > > In the Phabricator discussion, Denny and others spent some considerable > effort to come up with the following questions (I am quoting below from > Denny's last post on Phabricator, dated May 26th): > > ---o0o--- > > Denny wrote on Phabricator: > > So, given the discussion as it has been going, I hope that the following > questions sound good to everyone: > > 1. Can you comment on the practice of having processes that in bulk > extract facts from Wikipedia articles, which are published under > CC-BY-SA, > and store the results in Wikidata, where they are published under CC-0? > > > 1. Particular sets of facts we are interested in to consider would be: > a) interwiki links, b) facts extracted from infobox templates, c) facts > extracted from prose through natural language processing. > > > 1. What, if anything, may be imported from ODBL licensed databases like > OSM into Wikidata, and republished under CC-0? > > If I don't hear back by the mid of the next week, I'm going to raise these > as the questions we would kindly ask to be answered. > > ---o0o--- > > Given that more than a month has passed, have these questions actually been > answered? > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 4:15 PM Rob Speer <r...@luminoso.com> wrote: > > > > > > As always, copyright is predatory. As we can prove that copyright is > > the > > > enemy of science and knowledge > > > > > > Well, this kind of gets to the heart of the issue, doesn't it. > > > > > > I support the Creative Commons license, including the share-alike term, > > > which requires copyright in order to work, and I've contributed to > > multiple > > > Wikimedia projects with the understanding that my work would be > protected > > > by CC-By-SA. > > > > > > Wikidata is engaged in a project-wide act of disobedience against > > CC-By-SA. > > > I would say that GerardM has provided an excellent summary of the > > attitude > > > toward Creative Commons that I've encountered on Wikidata: "it's > holding > > us > > > back", "it's the enemy", "you can't copyright knowledge", "you can't > make > > > us follow it", etc. > > > > > > The result of this, by the way, is that commercial entities sell > modified > > > versions of Wikidata with impunity. It undermines the terms of other > > > resources such as DBPedia, which also contains facts extracted from > > > Wikipedia and respects its Share-Alike terms. Why would anyone use > > DBPedia > > > and have to agree to share alike, when they can get similar data from > > > Wikidata which promises them it's CC-0? > > > > > > On Wed, 16 May 2018 at 21:43 Gerard Meijssen < > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hoi, > > > > Thank you for the overly broad misrepresentation. As always, > copyright > > is > > > > predatory. As we can prove that copyright is the enemy of science and > > > > knowledge we should not be upset that *copyright *is abused we should > > > > welcome it as it proves the point. Also when we use texts from > > everywhere > > > > and rephrase it in Wikipedia articles "we" are not lily white either. > > > > > > > > In "them old days" generally we felt that when people would use > > > Wikipedia, > > > > it would only serve our purpose; share the sum of all knowledge. I > > still > > > > feel really good about that. And, it has been shown that what we do; > > > > maintain / curate / update that data that it is not easily given to > do > > as > > > > well as "we" do it. > > > > > > > > When we are to be more precise with our copyright, there are a few > > things > > > > we could do to make copyright more transparent. When data is to be > > > uploaded > > > > (Commons / Wikipedia or Wikidata) we should use a user that is OWNED > > and > > > > operated by the copyright holder. The operation may be by proxy and > as > > a > > > > consequence there is no longer a question about copyright as the > > > copyright > > > > holder can do as we wants. This makes any future noises just that, > > > > annoying. > > > > > > > > As to copyright on Wikidata, when you consider copyright using data > > from > > > > Wikipedia. The question is: "What Wikipedia" I have copied a lot of > > data > > > > from several Wikipedias and believe me, from a quality point of view > > > there > > > > is much to be gained by using Wikidata as an instrument for good > > because > > > it > > > > is really strong in identifying friends and false friends. It is > > superior > > > > as a tool for disambiguation. > > > > > > > > About the copyright on data, the overriding question with data is: do > > you > > > > copy data wholesale in Wikidata. That is what a database copyright is > > > > about. As I wrote on my blog [1], the best data to include is data > that > > > is > > > > corroborated by the fact that it is present in multiple sources. This > > > > negates the notion of a single source, it also underscores that much > of > > > the > > > > data everywhere is replicated a lot. It also underscores, again, the > > > notion > > > > that data that is only present in single sources is what needs > > attention. > > > > It needs tender loving care, it needs other sources to establish > > > > credentials. That is in its own right what makes any claim of > copyright > > > > moot. It is in this process that it becomes a "creative" process > > negating > > > > the copyright held on databases. > > > > > > > > I welcome the attention that is given to copyright in Wikidata. > However > > > our > > > > attention to copyright is predatory in two ways. It is how can we get > > > > around existing copyright and how can we protect our own. As argued, > > > > Wikidata shines when it is used for what it is intended to be; the > > place > > > > that brings data, of Wikipedias first and elsewhere second, together > to > > > be > > > > used as a repository of quality, open and linked data. > > > > Thanks, > > > > GerardM > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > > > https://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2018/05/wikidata- > > copyright-and-linked-data.html > > > > > > > > On 11 May 2018 at 23:10, Rob Speer <r...@luminoso.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wow, thanks for the heads up. When I was getting upset about > projects > > > > that > > > > > change the license on Wikimedia content and commercialize it, I had > > no > > > > idea > > > > > that Wikidata was providing them the cover to do so. The Creative > > > Commons > > > > > violation is coming from inside the house! > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 8 May 2018 at 03:48 mathieu stumpf guntz < > > > > > psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everybody, > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a phabricator ticket on Solve legal uncertainty of > > Wikidata > > > > > > <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728> that you might be > > > > interested > > > > > > to look at and participate in. > > > > > > > > > > > > As Denny suggested in the ticket to give it more visibility > through > > > the > > > > > > discussion on the Wikidata chat > > > > > > < > > > > > > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat# > > > > > Importing_datasets_under_incompatible_licenses>, > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought it was interesting to highlight it a bit more. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
