Because they'd be immediately accused of libeling him and it would turn into a he said/they said.
Also, while I do think the WMF should be in the business of blocking problem-causing users, it shouldn't be in the business of speaking out against them publicly. On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 3:39 PM Benjamin Ikuta <benjaminik...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Do you at least believe him when he says he hasn't contacted anyone offwiki, > and everything he was warned about was onwiki? > > And if he really is lying, why can't they even say so? > > > > On Jun 28, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Robert Fernandez <wikigamal...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I do. > > > > It just doesn’t make any sense. His account is either wrong or leaving out > > much of the truth. > > > > I have some idea (from unfortunate experience) how long office bans take, > > how much work goes into them, and how many people have to sign off on them. > > > > So we’re either saying one person with a checkered history is lying or a > > large number of professionals lied, conspired, and lashed out. > > > > Occam’s razor. > > > > On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 5:15 AM Benjamin Ikuta <benjaminik...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> > >> Why do you doubt Fram? What do you think happened? And why can't the WMF > >> say even so much as a, "That's not accurate."? > >> > >> You really think he's just outright lying? > >> > >> > >> > >> On Jun 14, 2019, at 4:03 PM, David Gerard <dger...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> If you really think Fram's framing of events here is even plausible, > >>> let alone the story, then you're less competent than I have previously > >>> considered you to be. > >>> > >>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 18:47, Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> According to Fram, the WMF told him his "interaction ban" was for > >>>> maintenance tagging two articles, yes (and when I looked at the diffs, > >> the > >>>> maintenance tags were accurate and necessary). So, either Fram is lying > >> or > >>>> omitting something (and the WMF, for whatever reason, is not challenging > >>>> him on it), the WMF lied to Fram, or they did indeed sanction him for > >> what > >>>> they told him they sanctioned him for. > >>>> > >>>> Todd > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 4:37 AM David Gerard <dger...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> and you're *seriously* positing that the WMF would ban an admin for > >>>>> doing only what you describe? > >>>>> > >>>>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 11:32, Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The only case of "harassment" apparently cited here was "I kept > >> writing > >>>>>> garbage articles, and someone kept flagging them as garbage! > >> Harassment! > >>>>>> Bad!" > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If you don't want your articles to be flagged as garbage, FIND YOUR > >>>>> SOURCES > >>>>>> PRIOR TO WRITING THEM, AND CITE THEM. That's rather a requirement > >> anyway. > >>>>>> The editor in question repeatedly failed to do that, repeatedly had > >> her > >>>>>> articles flagged for failure to do that, and regarded that as > >>>>> "harassment" > >>>>>> rather than her own failure to follow the English Wikipedia's > >> policies. > >>>>>> Next time, she needs to find the sources first, and write the article > >>>>> only > >>>>>> after she has them in hand. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Todd > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 10:14 AM Robert Fernandez < > >>>>> wikigamal...@gmail.com> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> If someone is able to harass someone for years and nothing is done > >> then > >>>>>>> clearly community procedures are not “perfectly adequate” > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 11:36 AM Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> This misses the point, as others have highlighted already. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The WMF can and /should/ globally and permanently ban paedophiles, > >>>>>>>> terrorists, system hackers and people making multiple cross-wiki > >>>>> death > >>>>>>>> threats or threats of suicide. There are perfectly good and > >>>>>>>> understandable reasons as to why the evidence behind these attacks > >>>>> and > >>>>>>>> threats would be kept unpublished, it's seriously personal or > >>>>> criminal > >>>>>>>> stuff. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The WMF making topic bans, interaction bans and limited project > >>>>>>>> specific bans against Wikipedians is a brand new invention, which > >>>>> goes > >>>>>>>> against the pre-existing understanding that the WMF do not replace > >>>>>>>> existing and perfectly adequate community agreed procedures for > >>>>>>>> banning bad behaviour on our projects. Once full time WMF employees > >>>>>>>> start doing in parallel what volunteer administrators already do, > >>>>> then > >>>>>>>> we should question why we do not *pay* volunteers administrators the > >>>>>>>> same hourly rate and we are likely to see a mass exodus of > >>>>>>>> administrators. After all, would you, say, deliver the post for free > >>>>>>>> in your area for fun, but thereby take away decent full time > >>>>>>>> employment with a guaranteed pension for your local postie? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> If the reason for the WMF stepping in to ban Fram for a year is > >>>>>>>> because the WMF do not trust Wikipedia administrators or Wikipedia's > >>>>>>>> Arbcom to take sensible action in harassment cases, then they should > >>>>>>>> be raising that honestly and openly with Arbcom. If the English > >>>>>>>> Wikipedia's policies are not fit for purpose, or implementation of > >>>>>>>> policy is incompetent, we need a much bigger discussion than whether > >>>>>>>> Fram did something so terrible it cannot be named, but oddly was not > >>>>>>>> worth a global ban but only the equivalent of a 12 month block on > >>>>>>>> Wikipedia while they are free to do whatever they feel like on other > >>>>>>>> Wikimedia projects. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Fae > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 15:35, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> When you bad mouth other users there should be, and will be, > >>>>>>>> consequences. > >>>>>>>>> An admin got desysoped and banned after repeated warnings? So > >>>>> what? The > >>>>>>>>> only ting to be learned is that some people believe they can do > >>>>>>> whatever > >>>>>>>>> they want and it has no consequences, and other people goes > >>>>> ballistic > >>>>>>>> when > >>>>>>>>> consequences happen. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I would have given desysoped fram and 14 days to cool off, and if > >>>>> that > >>>>>>>> did > >>>>>>>>> not work out repeated with one month. Banning someone for one year > >>>>> is > >>>>>>>> like > >>>>>>>>> telling them to leave and don't come back. Someone at WMF is > >>>>> clearly > >>>>>>>> overly > >>>>>>>>> sensitive, but not reacting would also be wrong. > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>>>>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: > >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>>>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > >> ?subject=unsubscribe> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>>>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: > >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>>>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > >> ?subject=unsubscribe> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>>>>>> Unsubscribe: > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > >> , > >>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
