I would probably never try to convince somebody about NC license. It sounds
pushy and almost never works, it's like optimizing a process that has a 0.1%
output. of course I can spend less time to do so, and maybe double the effect,
but it's still a limited output.
I prefer to agree with them, build a trust, produce other content with such
trust (that is not related to files of their production) and than, maybe, we
face the issue of images.
For example I almost convinced an artist to give me in free license
reproductions of his public artworks that are already destroyed, until a person
close to him stopped him (and he agreed with me prgamatically, I think that he
stopped only for sentimental reason)
There are other way to get free files ad they have nothing to do about "being
used on Wikipedia". if you want to be used on Wikipedia, you put it there, in
my experience this is not a critical factor in changing the opinion. For
example Wiki Science Competition gets files also from scientists that would
normally use NC, but it's not really about explaining the license, it's about
getting a prize, a visibility and being part of a network, a strat a discussion
about outreach.
Alessandro
Il lunedì 13 luglio 2020, 08:25:39 CEST, Pete Forsyth
<petefors...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Erik, thanks for posting the essay here. Glad to see the interest in this
topic.
I wrote this because I have found that when somebody asks me about the NC
provision, I often want to point them to a simple webpage (rather than
"reinventing the wheel" every time it comes up). There are some pages out
there (I listed some in the "See also" section), but I have yet to find
somewhere this particular point -- the need of a general license to issue
clear guidance -- articulated anywhere in a concise, accessible way.
I'm surprised (and a little disappointed) to see that the possibility of
Wikimedia generally accepting NC-licensed work is being discussed. But
apart from that discussion, I think many of you in this discussion have, at
one time or another, wanted to help guide someone toward using a more
permissive license, rather than a NC license.
For those who have, do you have favorite webpages you find helpful to
share? Does this one seem like a useful addition? I'd appreciate any
feedback or constructive edits to this essay; I also think it would be
useful to have some of the other arguments, currently collected in longer
documents, expressed in more "bite-sized" pieces like this, which could be
linked together. Do others agree, and if so, are you inclined to help draft
some complementary pages?
-Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 3:23 PM effe iets anders <effeietsand...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> The question is however as well: how many open licensed content creators
> would switch to NC if they were aware that this would be 'good enough' for
> Wikipedia - even if that means in reality only English Wikipedia (but who
> cares about other languages) and without actually allowing to build on top
> of it?
>
> I have found the argument 'don't use NC because then it can't be used on
> Wikipedia' rather convincing in the past. It will not always work, and I
> also wish it would convince /more/ organizations. But then, I would also
> wish that enwiki wouldn't use fair use exceptions - so maybe I'm not the
> benchmark you'd be looking at anyway.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 5:32 PM James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes one of the stronger reasons to reject all use of the NC license is
> that
> > it increases incentives for other organizations to actually adopt open
> > licenses. I simply wish that such a position would convince more
> > organizations. WHO has repeatedly told me that we, as a non-profit, are
> > already free to use their work and if we chose not to, that is on us.
> >
> > James
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 6:19 PM Erik Moeller <eloque...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi James :)
> > >
> > > (This is my last reply for today, given the recommended posting limit
> > > on this list.)
> > >
> > > > We all agree that NC licenses are exceedingly poor due to the reasons
> > > > listed, yet we leave a lot of useful content (such as Khan academy
> > > videos)
> > > > less accessible to our readers because we disallow any such use.
> > >
> > > I completely agree. I'm wondering if efforts have been made at the WMF
> > > or chapter level to partner with these organizations on new
> > > initiatives, where a more permissive license could be used? This could
> > > perhaps help to introduce CC-BY-SA/CC-BY to orgs like Khan Academy,
> > > and help lay the groundwork for potentially changing their default
> > > license.
> > >
> > > > This is a balance between pragmatism and idealism.
> > >
> > > I disagree with your framing here. There are many pragmatic reasons to
> > > want to build a knowledge commons with uniform expectations for how it
> > > can be built upon and re-used. It's also pragmatic to be careful about
> > > altering the incentive structure for contributors. Right now,
> > > Wikimedia Commons hosts millions of contributions under permissive
> > > licenses. How many of those folks would have chosen an "exceedingly
> > > poor" (your words) option like NC, if that was available? And if a
> > > nonfree carve-out is limited to organizations like Khan Academy, how
> > > is such a carve-out fair and equitable to contributors who have, in
> > > some cases, given up potential commercial revenue to contribute to
> > > Wikimedia projects?
> > >
> > > If a license is "exceedingly poor" and harmful to the goals of the
> > > free culture movement, incorporating more information under such terms
> > > strikes me as neither idealistic nor pragmatic -- it would just be
> > > short-sighted.
> > >
> > > Warmly,
> > > Erik
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > --
> > James Heilman
> > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > _______________________________________________
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