Hello Ciell, These discussions took place on meta, not on en.wp. I don't believe anyone has brought up the English Wikipedia in particular.
Todd On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 11:08 AM Ciell Wikipedia <ciell.wikipe...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Since this is about a Universal Code of Conduct, please do not focus this > thread on the English language Wikipedia alone. > > Ciell > > Op vr 31 jul. 2020 18:25 schreef Aron Manning <aronmanni...@gmail.com>: > > > As firmly endorsed by 41 community members (out of thousands) in the ToU > > for WMF > > < > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Diversity/9#Terms_of_Use_for_the_WMF > > > > > discussion, > > I think we can agree that the Terms of Use (and also the Code of Conduct) > > should apply to WMF employees as well, not just volunteers. > > > > However, I don't see how from that it could be inferred that there should > > be no Code of Conduct for the communities. > > I believe that the important question is how the CoC will be implemented: > > will it be a tool for silencing unwanted POVs or a tool for addressing > > toxicity? > > > > > > Just my thoughts. > > Aron > > > > > > > > On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 18:11, Yaroslav Blanter <ymb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > It is known and widely recognized that online communities were excluded > > > from the strategy process. There was no way one could open RfC on the > > > process, and no approval of the strategy by the editing communities. > > > > > > This has to be fixed now. It is difficult to fix, because there are > > already > > > too many boundary conditions attached, and I am personally trying to do > > > whatever I can as a member of the transition strategy group. > > > > > > On the other hand, there was no real RfC rejecting the UCoC (at least I > > am > > > not aware of one), even though many users, in particular, on the > English > > > Wikipedia in relation to the Fram affair, were very vocal about this. > But > > > people become vocal about many things, some of them, for example, > > continue > > > to advocate that we should fork from the existing project and this > > forking > > > is the only way forward. People say many things, and we have community > > > processes to see what is consensus and what is not. > > > > > > In the current situation, specifically concerning UCoC, is to wait for > > the > > > draft / drafting principle, whatever comes on 24 august. If many people > > > think the product is not acceptable they should open RfC on meta or on > > the > > > projects and see whether there is consensus it is unacceptable. For > these > > > RfCs to happen, but for this people should really follow the process, > > read > > > the draft and see what the consequences are. If online communities are > > not > > > involved in this process either, then things will go over and over > again > > - > > > UCOc accepted as proposed, included into ToU, followed by a couple of > > > high-profile bans, shistorm in the most active communities, and > complete > > > denial by WMF managers. We have been there and we do not want this > > > happening again. > > > > > > Best > > > Yaroslav > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 5:55 PM Anders Wennersten < > > > m...@anderswennersten.se> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > If you choose to not take active part in he strategy process it it > your > > > > privilege. But the fact is that the Strategy is the steering > document > > > > now for the nearest activities in the Movement. And the endorsments > are > > > > there to be read. > > > > > > > > If you had wanted the endorsement to be visible in the form of a Rfc, > > > > you missed to express that in an appropriate moment. > > > > > > > > Anders > > > > > > > > (This being my third entry, it will be my last) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:38, skrev Todd Allen: > > > > > I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any individual > > > > > statements. > > > > > > > > > > Todd > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten < > > > > m...@anderswennersten.se> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Read > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20 > > > > >> and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different > phases > > > > >> > > > > >> Anders > > > > >> > > > > >> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen: > > > > >>> Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals" > participated > > > in? > > > > >> The > > > > >>> one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm > "No". > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Todd > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten < > > > > >> m...@anderswennersten.se> > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy. > > The > > > > >>>> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals > > > > representing > > > > >>>> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the > > > closest > > > > we > > > > >>>> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as > in > > a > > > > >>>> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it > > > does > > > > >>>> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is > > the > > > > >>>> best way we know how to come to a decision. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely > involve > > > all > > > > >>>> parties being effected by it > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Anders > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen: > > > > >>>>> Uh, guys? > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There > > > > shouldn't > > > > >>>> be a > > > > >>>>> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Todd > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger < > > > > >>>>> csteigenber...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Hello everyone, > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct > > > drafting > > > > >>>>>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, > either > > > by > > > > >>>>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. > > > > >> Volunteers > > > > >>>>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different > > > > languages. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of > experience > > > > >>>> on-wiki, > > > > >>>>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people who > > have > > > > >> been > > > > >>>>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 > > > edits. > > > > >>>>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the > > movement, > > > > and > > > > >>>> also > > > > >>>>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in > their > > > > >>>> real-life > > > > >>>>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and > > > > >> extremely > > > > >>>>>> qualified pool of applicants. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision > making > > - > > > we > > > > >>>> want a > > > > >>>>>> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts > of > > > the > > > > >>>>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose > strength > > > is > > > > >>>> more in > > > > >>>>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, > > > > >> contributors > > > > >>>>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles > > > > within > > > > >>>> the > > > > >>>>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will > collaborate > > > with > > > > >> one > > > > >>>>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal > Code > > of > > > > >>>> Conduct > > > > >>>>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that > > > committees > > > > >>>> that > > > > >>>>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we > > decided > > > > to > > > > >>>> cap > > > > >>>>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be > > found > > > > on > > > > >>>> Meta > > > > >>>>>> < > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee > > > > >>>>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main > UCoC > > > > page > > > > >>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> > > [2]. > > > > >> Please > > > > >>>>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the > > > > >> community > > > > >>>>>> draft review period starting from August 24. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Best regards, > > > > >>>>>> Christel > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> [1] > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee > > > > >>>>>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her) > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Trust and Safety Specialist > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> > > > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > >>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > >>>>>> Unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > > >> , > > > > >>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > >>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > >>>>> Unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > >>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > >>>> Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > > , > > > > >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>> 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