Hey Seddon, Thank you for reading and considering the feedback provided. I'd like to add one more perspective to the picture:
IIRC in recent years the amount of donations was constantly increasing year-by-year and it's now far more than what's necessary to cover operational expenses of the WMF. I believe one of the concerns with the fundraiser is that the size and pushiness of the ad keeps growing while the WMF becomes less in need of those donations. While it seems that the ad's size is proportional to the funds raised, making this a successful strategy in the short term, it does not come free as Wikipedia's reputation is traded in the long term. A major concern is the sentences that manipulate readers' emotions to feel bad if they don't donate. I think we have seen that approach for fundraising many times in our lives from different sources, past and present and it never raised trust. Another non-obvious reason in my opinion why a big part of the community can't condone these fundraisers is that we see the donations being channeled to causes that don't benefit the communities proportionally to the costs. At the same time directly beneficial areas such as the developer team lacks the funds to hire decently productive engineers with current knowledge - leaving the software that makes Wikipedia possible always a decade behind current software development and UX design practices. The WMF's current goals with the Movement Strategy would also benefit from hiring professional mediators and code of conduct educators to give a chance for the UCoC to be implemented true to its purpose instead of a dangerous tool in the hands of presumably untrained personnel. These investments would make me suggest people to donate to the WMF, as it goes to a clearly beneficial causes, but currently the way I see it the WMF has more donations than it can invest beneficially. I find only a message that's *humble in its length* - instead of just claiming to be humble - would be appropriate. Thank you for reading. Aron On Sat, 5 Dec 2020 at 18:04, Joseph Seddon <jsed...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > Hey Michel, > > There are some other points that Fae raised particularly around user > experience and technical implementation that are distinctly more complex > tasks and we are going to need to discuss and plan our testing to work on > them, and the team is at very limited capacity on a Saturday. (I myself had > been out enjoying the rather brisk winter air that's visiting the UK). Due > to their very nature, rolling back the emoji's in the messaging could be > done immediately. > > I've already brought the feedback back to the team, and I'll be reviewing > with the team on Monday and hopefully work on them this week. > > Seddon > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 4:36 PM Michel Vuijlsteke <wikipe...@zog.org> > wrote: > >> I don't quite think the emoji were the only thing people hated >> about this. >> >> On Sat, 5 Dec 2020 at 17:09, Joseph Seddon <jsed...@wikimedia.org> wrote: >> >>> Hey all, >>> >>> To avoid burying the lead, the feedback is appreciated and we do listen >>> whenever feedback is raised. I've just been coordinating with the team, and >>> we've rolled back this change. >>> >>> For some background, the emojis in this messaging were a recent addition >>> earlier this week. Emojis have become a core part of the way the world >>> communicates, especially with younger demographics, practically becoming an >>> ideographic language in and of itself. The team has been keen to see if >>> there are ways we can leverage this, especially on mobile and we’ve been >>> experimenting with them over the last couple of years in a number of >>> campaigns. >>> >>> I want to recognise that we missed the mark on this one and that your >>> feedback is heard, much appreciated and acted upon. The team really does >>> care about the messaging and how it represents us, and the projects as a >>> whole. Our processes on approving content have massively improved over the >>> years and I think it reflects in the messaging we use. A number of people >>> have noted that it has improved for the better over the years. >>> >>> At the same time I want to take some ownership of this misstep myself. >>> I've been proactively working in real time with some volunteers, discussing >>> concepts and gathering feedback on campaigns. This feedback has definitely >>> shown that for such a new concept, I should have made sure to have >>> highlighted and gotten more input on this. >>> >>> I'll be gathering input on how we use emojis in our messaging and I'd be >>> happy to follow up with people about this. Just an additional note that if >>> anyone wants to talk through any feedback with me I can be found on IRC, >>> Discord, Telegram or send it through via email ( seddon at wikimedia.org >>> ). >>> >>> My apologies but also my genuine thanks for the feedback. >>> >>> Seddon >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 2:24 PM Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> tend to agree there should be a mobile friendly version, the article >>>> should be visible at the same time. What wording is used it definitely >>>> should not have religious actions or symbology in it... the other emojis do >>>> seem childish >>>> >>>> On Sat, 5 Dec 2020 at 21:58, Chris Gates via Wikimedia-l < >>>> wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I opened a browser I’m not logged in on to see what these ads were. >>>>> >>>>> Here is the text, unedited, of the second ad I was shown (after >>>>> closing the first): >>>>> >>>>> “Hi reader 🙂. Sorry for the interruption, but this Saturday Wikipedia >>>>> really needs your help. This is the 3rd appeal we've shown you. 98% >>>>> of our readers don't give; they look the other way 😢. All we ask is >>>>> $2.75 and then you can get back to your article. We ask you, humbly: >>>>> please don't scroll away 🙏🙏.“ >>>>> >>>>> It would be quite helpful if the WMF’s marketing and >>>>> fundraising-focused teams weren’t so intent on destroying Wikipedia’s >>>>> reputation. I, and I’m sure most editors, don’t care that praying and >>>>> crying emojis illicit more money. There are social and reputation costs to >>>>> portraying Wikipedia like a crying, praying beggar about to go broke. And >>>>> though I understand the employees responsible for pushing this nonsense in >>>>> front of every reader evidently do not care about the costs of their >>>>> actions, and only whatever money they can get from it, it remains wholly >>>>> unacceptable. >>>>> >>>>> Tell me: why should I volunteer to work on a project whose owners, >>>>> regardless of the incredibly large quantities of money they already have, >>>>> seek frequently to illicit donations through methods that damage >>>>> Wikipedia’s reputation? Why would I give hours of my time a week to make >>>>> Wikimedia projects clear of vandalism and abuse, seeking to give readers >>>>> the impression of a functional and reliable source of information, knowing >>>>> that some marketing person could undo all of the volunteers’ work through >>>>> some ad campaign? >>>>> >>>>> And yes, I also understand that volunteers complain every time this >>>>> happens. There’s very good reason to do so, as every time these campaigns >>>>> go out they are worse than the last, wholly ignorant of community wishes, >>>>> and taking no views into account other than those who reflect purely a >>>>> goal >>>>> of getting more donations. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Vermont >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 05:22 Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Let's try kicking this perennial thead again. >>>>>> >>>>>> This morning (5 Dec 2020) I paused cooling my porridge when looking up >>>>>> how Wikipedia describes 'Latinx' usage on my cellular, I was faced >>>>>> with a *2 page* advert. >>>>>> * The advert meant nothing of the article could be seen, not even the >>>>>> title, without having to pass the two pages of several big blue >>>>>> fundraising notices. >>>>>> * There's some statements in those notices that, frankly, look >>>>>> unencyclopaedic like "People told us we'd regret making Wikipedia a >>>>>> non-profit". That's a literally untrue Trumpian political sentence if >>>>>> ever I saw one. >>>>>> * The 2 pages close with "We ask you, humbly: don't scroll away" >>>>>> followed by a single option of a "MAYBE LATER" link (not a 'go away >>>>>> forever please' link, and yes, it's really in shouty all caps). >>>>>> >>>>>> I might have passed on thinking, gah, not again, but there is a >>>>>> further sting in this tale. After working out that there was a "No >>>>>> thanks" link back at the start in a font smaller than all the notice >>>>>> text, you are faced with a second big red fundraising notice. This one >>>>>> has a sad weeping emoji in it, because you are going to "look the >>>>>> other way". I guess the idea is to make it feel like you are >>>>>> heartlessly walking past a beggar on the street without having the >>>>>> humanity to look at them, not sure how else this is supposed to read. >>>>>> It closes with the same "humbly" sentence, but this time with two >>>>>> emojis that are begging or praying hands. Personally I find being >>>>>> prayed at slightly offensive, Wikipedia being a haven of logical >>>>>> thought, not a church, but that's probably me being too black hat. >>>>>> >>>>>> Isn't it about time the $100,000,000+ a year WMF made a design choice >>>>>> to stay classy and avoid multiple full page banners begging the public >>>>>> for money like it was about to go bust? It looks desperate because >>>>>> there's no other honest way to describe it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Stay safe, wear a mask, >>>>>> Fae >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, 5 May 2020 at 12:58, WereSpielChequers >>>>>> <werespielchequ...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Given the large reserves that the WMF carries, and the savings from >>>>>> > cancelling events such as Wikimania 2020, I would have thought that >>>>>> the WMF >>>>>> > was one organisation that could afford to pause its fundraising for >>>>>> a few >>>>>> > months. At least in countries where the economy is in freefall. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > In a few months time lots of people will still be in a financial >>>>>> mess. But >>>>>> > the large number of people who are currently going to be worried >>>>>> about >>>>>> > their financial future will hopefully be divided into those who >>>>>> have kept >>>>>> > their jobs. or got new ones and those who were right to be worried. >>>>>> > Hopefully some of those who come through this financially OK will >>>>>> be in a >>>>>> > position to donate. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > WSC >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Tue, 5 May 2020 at 11:25, < >>>>>> wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org> >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > > Send Wikimedia-l mailing list submissions to >>>>>> > > wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>>> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >>>>>> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>>> > > wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>>> > > wikimedia-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more >>>>>> specific >>>>>> > > than "Re: Contents of Wikimedia-l digest..." >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > Today's Topics: >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > 1. Annoying ads (John Erling Blad) >>>>>> > > 2. Re: Annoying ads (Benjamin Ikuta) >>>>>> > > 3. Re: Annoying ads (Robert Fernandez) >>>>>> > > 4. Re: Annoying ads (Pierre-Yves Beaudouin) >>>>>> > > 5. Re: Annoying ads (Nick Wilson (Quiddity)) >>>>>> > > 6. Re: Annoying ads (Samuel Klein) >>>>>> > > 7. Re: Annoying ads (Paulo Santos Perneta) >>>>>> > > 8. Re: Annoying ads (Paulo Santos Perneta) >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> > >Cheers >>>>>> > > Message: 1 >>>>>> > > Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 16:55:50 +0200 >>>>>> > > From: John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> >>>>>> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> >>>>>> > > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Annoying ads >>>>>> > > Message-ID: >>>>>> > > <CAJcMX2= >>>>>> > > 5ggwunkrfg6ejjsn6sb1rbf1h_fnyphpd_wjr5ot...@mail.gmail.com> >>>>>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > Often I surf Wikipedia without being logged in, and so I did >>>>>> right now. I >>>>>> > > got the usual banners, but this time they popped up repeatedly in >>>>>> several >>>>>> > > locations. This quickly gets extremely annoying, and I find it >>>>>> unwise. >>>>>> > > Create one banner, and stick with that. Several banners are >>>>>> simply way over >>>>>> > > the top. >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > /jeblad >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > ------------------------------ >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > ***************************** >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> > Unsubscribe: >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto: >>>>>> wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> GN. >>>> >>>> *Power of Diverse Collaboration* >>>> *Sharing knowledge brings people together* >>>> Wikimania Bangkok 2021 >>>> August >>>> hosted by ESEAP >>>> >>>> Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra >>>> Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page >>>> My print shop: https://www.redbubble.com/people/Gnangarra/shop?asc=u >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Seddon >>> >>> >>> *Senior Community Relations Specialist* >>> *Advancement (Fundraising), Wikimedia Foundation* >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > > -- > Seddon > > > *Senior Community Relations Specialist* > *Advancement (Fundraising), Wikimedia Foundation* > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >
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