(Clarification: They are chosen by AffCom from a pool of self nominated candidates usually from the communities that make the Wikimedia Movement - but community involvement stops there, AFAIK)
P. Paulo Santos Perneta <paulospern...@gmail.com> escreveu no dia terça, 26/10/2021 à(s) 12:16: > That (AffCom history) I don't know, apart that once they were known as > ChapCom. At least since 2017 (and probably well before?) AffCom members are > chosen by AffCom itself, and the only entity they answer to is the WMF BoT. > > Best, > Paulo > > > Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> escreveu no dia terça, 26/10/2021 à(s) > 12:01: > >> During my time on Wikimedia Australia Committee/board the Affcom members >> were elected by the Affiliates, though like all committees individuals can >> be cooped to fill specific needs >> >> On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 at 18:53, Paulo Santos Perneta < >> paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> "Affcom cant be violating this as they are a volunteer community >>> elected committee." - No, despite the dubious information that AffCom >>> keeps about themselves on their meta page, they are not "elected", and they >>> do not answer to the community 8Wikimedia Movement), as you seem to >>> believe. >>> They are nominated (by themselves, none the less), and they work for WMF >>> BoT (they are a committee of the BoT), and answer to none other than WMF >>> BoT. So yes, I'm pretty sure these principles do fully apply to them. >>> >>> Best, >>> Paulo >>> >>> Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> escreveu no dia terça, 26/10/2021 à(s) >>> 00:45: >>> >>>> Michal >>>> >>>> The guiding principles you refer to state "*These are not principles >>>> intended to cover the entire Wikimedia movement, just the Wikimedia >>>> Foundation*" >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Guiding_Principles. >>>> Affcom cant be violating this as they are a volunteer community elected >>>> committee. As a liaison for the WMF to AFFCOM the person you refer to must >>>> follow the decisions of the committee and is limited to how much they can >>>> respond. This is the third forum you have shopped in attacking someone >>>> who is unable to respond, your complaint is that you dont like a decision >>>> made by Affcom. >>>> >>>> Your action do clearly read as a personal public attack intended to >>>> negatively affect her reputation, you state that it is by saying " *I >>>> would much rather to communicate about these affairs privately. >>>> **Unfortunately, >>>> I have recognized her in the MCDC too lately for private communication*" >>>> It is never too late for private discussion and in every event it is >>>> always best to work directly with people to resolve an issue rather than >>>> post long rambling emails to lists like this and other pub;ic communication >>>> channels as the person cannot respond in every forum and will never have >>>> the ability for everyone who has read your rant to get a clear outcome. As >>>> an employee future employers will also see these threads, again they wont >>>> find resolutions or any apology. >>>> >>>> Act respectfully and take your issues to AFFCOM or to the WMF employees >>>> line manager privately. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Gnangarra >>>> >>>> On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 at 02:45, Michal Matúšov <kubof.hromos...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Risker, >>>>> >>>>> first of all I would like to emphasize that I am not sure whether >>>>> AffCom is violating WMF Guiding principles or not. I have my strong >>>>> opinion >>>>> based on months of interactions, but I consider that investigation is >>>>> needed to be sure. And in order to receive diverse data for a meaningful >>>>> investigation I have launched this thread and some data have started to >>>>> come (thanks Lane!). >>>>> >>>>> Now to the point, what are the possible AffCom's violations of WMF >>>>> Guiding principles? Here are some examples (sorry in advance that they are >>>>> going to be bit longer that I would like..): >>>>> >>>>> Over the last months I have been in intense communication with AffCom >>>>> over several things. While I have expected (and accepted) that some >>>>> communication can be rather slow (because of the structure of AffCom), it >>>>> showed up that some communication from AffCom is at best very misleading. >>>>> E.g. AffCom reactively (on my question) informed WUG Esperanto and Free >>>>> Knowledge (EliSo) that AffCom put on hold EliSo's recognition as a hematic >>>>> Organisation. As a reason AffCom mentioned "several issues" and that >>>>> AffCom >>>>> is already dealing about them "with the group". It showed up that nor >>>>> issues, nor dealing up with the group [EliSo] was true... I have asked >>>>> AffCom several times when it put EliSo's recognition on hold but AffCom >>>>> never clearly answered that. *That is taking 3 months now!* AffCom >>>>> despite my clear question to inform ELiSo about when AffCom put ELiSo's >>>>> recognition on hold never answered this question. That would be rather >>>>> annoying, but the additional fact is that EliSo asked for ThemOrg >>>>> recognition on late november 2020. So according to ThemOrg requirements >>>>> page [1] , the projected time for approval is 4–6 months, meaning that >>>>> ELiSo would be projected to be recognized in late March - May 2021. So >>>>> AffCom reactively (!) informed ELiSo about putting on hold its ThemOrg >>>>> application after 2 months of the longest projected time for approval... >>>>> *In >>>>> summary*: AffCom have communicated false information, non-proactively >>>>> and in a secretive manner. In my personal opinion it is in conflict with >>>>> the principle of transparency and accountability. >>>>> >>>>> I am during last 4,5 years involved in helping WUG WMSVK to stop >>>>> violating its bylaws and correct its past and current intentional {and >>>>> possibly non-intentional) violations of Bylaws, Board agreements and >>>>> possibly national laws. AffCom is formally involved since early 2020 and >>>>> in >>>>> December 2021 AffCom took full responsibility for WUG WMSVK. During the >>>>> time of most engagement, AffCom was (and still is) very secretive and >>>>> hardly ever and only after several attempts to communication does provide >>>>> a >>>>> clear answer of meaningful clarification. Under AffCom's full >>>>> responsibility, WMSVK did nearly nothing to stop violations and correct >>>>> the >>>>> past ones. So AffCom is fully responsible for these violations, what is in >>>>> conflict with the WMF Guiding principle of Shared power, as it is Bylaw >>>>> which define power division. Later AffCom pushed for a mediation between >>>>> me >>>>> and WMSVK. After about 2 months of delays, AffCom informed me that the >>>>> mediation is canceled. After that, the WMSVK's chair informed me, that >>>>> AffCom informed WMSVK, that it was me who canceled the mediation (what is >>>>> false). I do not know if AffCom really falsely informed WMSVK that it was >>>>> me who canceled the mediation, so I have explicitly asked AffCom that. >>>>> AffCom after nearly 1 month still haven't responded to this question. It >>>>> is >>>>> so much frustrating that both me and WMSVK have lost our time, effort, >>>>> energy and nerves but AffCom haven't even responded such a simple >>>>> question. >>>>> It would require 3 words (!) from AffCom but it has never provided them... >>>>> I and WMSVK are now in a state of not knowing and it is really damaging >>>>> the >>>>> possibility of success of the Wikimedia movement in Slovakia. >>>>> >>>>> These are some concrete (and (maybe too) long) examples that I feel >>>>> exemplifies the issues best. There are a lot of similar situations with >>>>> AffCom that I have personally experienced. >>>>> Lane Rasberry also provided some evidence about the India chapter. I >>>>> haven't dug into that topic yet, so I don't have enough data to draw a >>>>> solid conclusion. But a preliminary analysis of the publicly shared >>>>> information suggests high similarity with my own experiences, suggesting >>>>> that there can be a structural weakness of AffCom which makes it prone to >>>>> consistently manifest a behaviour conflicting with the Wikimedia >>>>> Foundation >>>>> Guiding Principles (mostly Transparency and Accountability, and one can >>>>> argue that to lesser extend also Stewardship). >>>>> >>>>> I hope that now you have a better understanding, Risker! >>>>> >>>>> [1] >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_thematic_organizations/Requirements >>>>> >>>>> Best regards >>>>> KuboF Hromoslav (Michal Matúšov) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> po 25. 10. 2021 o 0:28 Risker <risker...@gmail.com> napísal(a): >>>>> >>>>>> KuboF, I have read your email, but I am none the wiser. Please >>>>>> explain precisely what your concerns are. In what way is AffCom not >>>>>> following the WMF guiding principles? >>>>>> >>>>>> Risker/Anne >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, 24 Oct 2021 at 18:18, Michal Matúšov < >>>>>> kubof.hromos...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi wikimedians, especially functionaries of affiliations! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If nothing substantial will change, in about 2 weeks I am going to >>>>>>> start a formal investigation of possible AffCom's violations of >>>>>>> Wikimedia >>>>>>> Foundation Guiding Principles [1]. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> During last months and especially weeks I have noticed several >>>>>>> issues about AffCom which showed up to hinder work and development of >>>>>>> Wikimedia affiliations. While I have originally considered them to be >>>>>>> exceptions, they have shown a consistent pattern through time indicating >>>>>>> possible structural weakness. I have already asked AffCom non-publicly >>>>>>> about some elements of them and AffCom's answers (respectively lack of >>>>>>> them) for now show it to be higher probable that the issues are real and >>>>>>> structural. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In order to make the investigation more efficient and productive I >>>>>>> need your help! If you during last year experienced non-trivial issues >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> AffCom, especially if they hindered your affiliation (holding up your >>>>>>> recognition with lack of reasonable communication, non-action to prevent >>>>>>> violations of agreements, very slow work, communication of >>>>>>> false information etc etc etc), please let me know personally >>>>>>> (non-publicly, outside of the list) by email (possibly by sending email >>>>>>> using Meta [2]). I much prefer if you are willing to accept that in >>>>>>> case of >>>>>>> investigation I could identify you and your affiliation. But as I >>>>>>> understand that such identification could possibly make AffCom more >>>>>>> prone >>>>>>> to target its issues towards you and your affiliation, I accept to >>>>>>> receive >>>>>>> your evidence and make a reasonable effort to anonymize it (paraphrasing >>>>>>> your words, getting the essence of the experience without specifics - >>>>>>> or to >>>>>>> not use it if it would be unreasonable to anonymize it). Please, write >>>>>>> "*AffCom >>>>>>> investigation*" (without parenthesis) in the title, so I can find >>>>>>> it more easily! Many thanks! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Last, but urgent related affair: >>>>>>> As *AffCom's Staff Liaison Manavpreet Kaur* is currently a >>>>>>> candidate for the very responsible role of Movement Charter Drafting >>>>>>> Committee member, I have asked her about her involvement in AffCom's >>>>>>> issues >>>>>>> and the possibility for her to "import" the AffCom-like issues to the >>>>>>> Movement Charter Drafting Committee [3] [4]. I am sorry for not starting >>>>>>> this conversation publicly sooner! (I have checked the candidates too >>>>>>> lately and also needed some time to prepare the message, as it must be >>>>>>> very >>>>>>> precise) I know that such information would be very interesting for >>>>>>> many of >>>>>>> you and would help you in your voting decision. (In a similar way I >>>>>>> wanted >>>>>>> to challenge Rosie Stephenson-Goodknight during her candidacy for >>>>>>> community >>>>>>> elected Board of Trustees seat several months ago, as she in that time >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> the AffCom's Chair. Unfortunately, I have too lately considered her >>>>>>> possible role in AffCom's issues to be potentially significant. Sorry >>>>>>> again!) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Guiding_Principles >>>>>>> [2] >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/KuboF_Hromoslav >>>>>>> [3] >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Manavpreet_Kaur#Your_role_in_AffCom's_issues_in_relation_to_your_Movement_Charter_Drafting_Committee_member_candidacy >>>>>>> [4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/22235789 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards! >>>>>>> KuboF Hromoslav (Michal Matúšov) >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, >>>>>>> guidelines at: >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>>> Public archives at >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/D7XUOJ3YOQ4KAFHSAUCI7WA2KAFN24XN/ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, >>>>>> guidelines at: >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>> Public archives at >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/WBETDE263GXT6RWXRMEP66OCDM3SBDBW/ >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, >>>>> guidelines at: >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>> Public archives at >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/LJOI4544TBMIJ2QLCHYUW7EJDSDDJNQD/ >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> GN. >>>> * >>>> 2021* >>>> *Celebrating 20 years of Wikipedia* >>>> >>>> >>>> Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra >>>> Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page >>>> My print shop: https://www.redbubble.com/people/Gnangarra/shop?asc=u >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, >>>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>> and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> Public archives at >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/BFCNFQ5C7KLZREMBKXASXSWJ27CHQG3I/ >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines >>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> Public archives at >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/ZKZCLIRGKPU3BR4YTNHCK4PO7BD24NX6/ >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> >> >> -- >> GN. >> * >> 2021* >> *Celebrating 20 years of Wikipedia* >> >> >> Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra >> Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page >> My print shop: https://www.redbubble.com/people/Gnangarra/shop?asc=u >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/Y5FZZN577BIIDYK3LTTLFHZEC3NWIMAM/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org > >
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