Bon dia a tothom/Hi everyone,
It's really difficult not to agree with Galder here. Happy to still read these
persistent colleagues with key arguments.
The same people that committed the big mistakes and failure with Wikimedia
Space (that should have never existed and that even combined discussions with
Facebook groups as a "revolution" of communication) is now trying to tell us
that they "learnt from those mistakes" and that they have full commitment in
finishing this new forum. I still look back at [this graph of
2019](https://diff.wikimedia.org/2019/06/25/introducing-wikimedia-space-a-platform-for-movement-news-and-conversations/)
and wonder how things can rapidly age that badly and with worse leadership.
Imho this is quite informative of the lack of sustained chain of command (not
community-need driven anymore). And the worst part of it, this is coming from
the same people that is parallelly trying to blame those volunteers who
strongly disagree with very legit discourses on the constant externalization of
features and the lack of renewed wiki tech. I've read so far too many fallacies
("this platform must be good because we are 67 staff people behind", etc)
instead of a critical recognition that our default, wiki one is obsolete and
must be urgently supported with staff and resources.
There is no way to justify new forums in other interfaces rather than the aim
or the apathy of the WMF to disengage actively involved wikipedians in favor of
more empty infrastructures (that benefits the institution rather the direct
interaction within the knowledge projects). Truly sad, especially when some of
us feel obliged to explain this to kind donors that truly believe that their 5$
are going to fund Wikipedia's servers and functionalities as they are mostly
told in the funding banners.
Xavier Dengra
------- Original Message -------
El dilluns, 13 de juny 2022 a les 10:19 AM, Matej Grochal
<matej.groc...@wikimedia.sk> va escriure:
> Dear all
>
> I quite agree with Galder here. We should focus on making our own spaces more
> inclusive and easier to use rather than jumping to various external providers
> for this and that. Let's not forget that existing volunteers and staff also
> have to learn to use the new platform. The other issue is the continued
> splitting of content and esp. volunteers have to find extra time to check
> those other platforms to stay in touch with the movement.
>
> Be well and healthy
>
> Matej
>
> On Sunday, June 12, 2022, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <galder...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Ceill,
>> I am a big fan of having 'one front door' for people that are trying to find
>> answers to questions. Having the front door in another building, with
>> another technology, and once they are in we say them that our building is
>> the other one, the one that is falling down (but don't visit the basement,
>> please, is full of money) is the worst of the strategies.
>>
>> Best,
>> Galder
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> From: Ciell Wikipedia <ciell.wikipe...@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2022 6:03 PM
>> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Movement Strategy Forum community
>> review
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> First: I am a big fan of having 'one front door' for people that are trying
>> to find answers to questions they do not know where to ask ([last year's
>> movement communications insights on
>> this](https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_communications_insights/Report/Front_door)).
>> I think a forum, actively moderated by people helping and pointing users to
>> the right places, would be a huge improvement for community questions and
>> input. Especially the one-click translation service is imho a big plus in
>> service in comparison to Meta.
>>
>> It does however worry me that when I joined the forum last weekend to take a
>> peek, I stumbled on a thread with a very specific question about Commons and
>> giving permission via VRT. The thread had multiple replies, but no one had a
>> real substantial answer. Well, replies were along the lines of 'No, there is
>> no template for this' and 'This should be discussed on Commons'. While the
>> answers were somewhat correct, they were obviously not helpful for the
>> person asking this specific question and, as far as I could tell, none of
>> the respondents were a member of our VRT teams. So this user was effectively
>> not helped by posting the question on the forum.
>> Even more so, because the question on the forum was not noticed by VRT
>> agents (most of us working on the permissions queues and Commons will have
>> the /Noticeboard on Commons on our watch list and can be pinged if country
>> or language specific knowledge or advise is needed for a question), and
>> secondly it will be more difficult for the people working from our end that
>> will have to follow up if the person does decide to bring the question to
>> Commons or VRT after all.
>>
>> Besides that, with my MCDC hat on, I hope after this trial period we'll get
>> to see the data on how many people interacted about the Movement Strategy
>> that we have not heard from in the previous 5 years through any of the other
>> platforms that are in use to gather feedback. Already trying to watch
>> several channels with Strategy discussions, I count on the MSG team to bring
>> back these numbers and a summary of what is being discussed on the forum
>> back to Meta. Even in a virtual world there is a limit on how many channels
>> a Wikimedian can watch.
>>
>> NB: I see Sj's response crossed mine while I was writing, but let my example
>> underline the issue of 'no unified notifications' and a possible problem
>> with 'coherent archiving'.
>> Please also be aware G-translate does not know all languages we have
>> projects in, some of which are however supported by Yandex that is an option
>> to choose for the Wikipedia article translation tool already.
>>
>> Best,
>> Ciell_______________________________________________
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