Thanks for pointing this out, Chico. I’ve left a comment on the ticket there. We appreciate that folks want to move things forward. Currently, the UCoC is indirectly linked via the link to the Terms of Use, which notifies all users that they are agreeing to abide by Board resolutions impacting projects <https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use/en#11._Resolutions_and_Project_Policies>. However, adding UCoC links directly is a recommendation in the UCoC Enforcement Guidelines <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Revised_enforcement_guidelines#2.1.1_Promoting_UCoC_awareness>, so it’s best that we revisit this ticket in mid-February after the vote results are finished.
On Sat, Jan 7, 2023 at 3:04 AM William Chan <will...@wchan.hk> wrote: > Hi Chico, > > I disagree with your conclusion. The code is conduct is in force but > there's no universal way of enforcing it. However, some communities which > had previously been plagued with bad faith actors have already used the > UCoC as a step towards introducing better governance initiatives. > Another plus side, the UCoC had discouraged bad faith actors to a point > where communities can push new initiatives that limit these bad faith > actors without the fear of disruption from these bad actors. > > It is thus, for me, can at least define civility for some communities and > introduce sanity back to these communities, (read: the Chinese Wikipedia). > > Regards, > William > > On Fri, 6 Jan 2023, 03:00 Chico Venancio, <chicocvenan...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Nataliia, >> >> Thanks for addressing this issue, I do think your message clarified a lot >> and moves us forward with some paths and goalposts. >> >> I do take objection to this statement, however. >> > First, the UCoC is being enforced now. Not only does it help guide the >> Wikimedia Foundation in its current actions (and has since it was adopted >> by resolution [1]), but multiple communities have referred to it in their >> own actions. The policy is in place already, and its enforcement by >> communities is encouraged, there is no expectation that it be delayed until >> the guidelines for globally approaching the enforcement of the policy are >> agreed upon. >> >> Whatever the board's intentions are, the outcome is the UCoC is delayed >> until we have enforcement guidelines. Both WMF and communities have acted >> in this way and we could cite several examples of actions since the UCoC >> approving resolution a bit over 2 years ago. >> >> For a single, very symbolic, example, let me point you in the right >> direction of https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T280886 >> >> A full 4 months after the resolution, and now 20 months ago, I created a >> rather simple task add links to the UCoC to all WMF wikis. Code for it was >> written and it briefly was live before being reverted due to indecision on >> where the text policy should live. I have called attention to WMF staff to >> this crucial issue for the past 20 months, and yet we still do not even >> link to the UCoC in our websites. >> >> Best regards, >> Chico Venancio >> >> Em qui., 5 de jan. de 2023 às 14:38, Nataliia Tymkiv < >> ntym...@wikimedia.org> escreveu: >> >>> Dear Chico, and Peter, dear all. >>> >>> Speaking as the chair of the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees, I >>> have a few thoughts. First, the UCoC is being enforced now. Not only does >>> it help guide the Wikimedia Foundation in its current actions (and has >>> since it was adopted by resolution [1]), but multiple communities have >>> referred to it in their own actions. The policy is in place already, and >>> its enforcement by communities is encouraged, there is no expectation that >>> it be delayed until the guidelines for globally approaching the enforcement >>> of the policy are agreed upon. >>> >>> You do raise a valid question about the success of the last round of >>> votes. At that point in time, as at this time, staff had recommended that >>> we, the Board, review any version that passed a simple majority, but such a >>> situation was never a guarantee of ratification. We respected the results >>> of the vote – if communities at large could not support the outcome, we >>> would not have evaluated it at all – but we were interested not only in >>> support numbers but in causes of concern. What we noticed last time was >>> that concerns coalesced around a few specific areas, so we felt the >>> guidelines would benefit from deeper discussion and exploration of those >>> specific areas. We wanted to make sure the enforcement guidelines were as >>> widely understood and supported at their launch as they could be and >>> greatly appreciate the work the communities have done together with the >>> volunteer-led revisions drafting committee to explore those areas. >>> >>> With this next round of voting, we hope to find that the further >>> conversations have led to alignment in these few challenging areas. >>> Ideally, the guidelines will meet with even more support than last time. If >>> not, if the changes have actually reduced support, then it might be worth >>> considering whether those revisions were actually beneficial to the broader >>> community. If this version of the enforcement guidelines do not exceed the >>> level of support of the last, we may instead need to consider ratifying the >>> last or some hybrid of the two or even further reviewing with the community >>> certain aspects for different development. >>> >>> No matter what happens with the enforcement guidelines vote, the UCoC is >>> important to our community health. While global alignment on how to >>> approach issues is being sought, we trust local communities are continuing >>> to uphold this policy and other requirements of the Terms of Use to the >>> best of their abilities. >>> >>> [1] >>> https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Approval_of_a_Universal_Code_of_Conduct >>> >>> Best regards, >>> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv >>> Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees >>> >>> *NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your normal >>> working hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during >>> weekend. You should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. >>> Thank you in advance!* >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 5:23 PM Peter Southwood < >>> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: >>> >>>> An interesting standoff. I don’t suppose anyone has analysed the >>>> potential losses and gains associated with each option. If that is even >>>> possible, considering the number of unknowns. I agree that it is taking an >>>> amazingly long time, and it is not obvious why. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Chico Venancio [mailto:chicocvenan...@gmail.com] >>>> *Sent:* 05 January 2023 16:56 >>>> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List >>>> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Upcoming vote on the revised Enforcement >>>> Guidelines for the Universal Code of Conduct >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The heart of the matter is why are we voting? What is the threshold >>>> that will enact the UCoC? >>>> >>>> > Who it would be respected by. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> WMF and the board. We've had 3 and a half years of discussion on the >>>> UCoC and a majority vote to approve enforcement guidelines, and yet no >>>> functioning UCoC. >>>> >>>> >As volunteers, if a significant part of the community sufficiently >>>> dislikes the proposed UCOC, we simply lose them, and some may become >>>> vociferous opponents because reasonably fixable issues were ignored. Taking >>>> longer and getting it closer to right is to me a better plan. You may not >>>> care about some of the issues that needed to be fixed, but some of us do. >>>> >>>> As volunteers, if a significant part of the community sufficiently >>>> dislikes the status quo we simple lose them, and some may become vociferous >>>> opponents because reasonably fixable issues were ignored. Taking over 3 >>>> years to implement an Universal Code of Conduct is to me a bad plan. You >>>> may not care about some of the issues that needed to be fixed, but some of >>>> us do. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Chico Venancio >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Em qui., 5 de jan. de 2023 às 11:22, Peter Southwood < >>>> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> escreveu: >>>> >>>> It seems that sorting out problems that are pointed out during an >>>> approval process is not an unreasonable thing to do, as leaving them >>>> unchanged would be irresponsible and extremely likely to cause other >>>> problems later. Asking whether a vote result will be respected misses the >>>> issue of who it would be respected by. Can you clarify that? As volunteers, >>>> if a significant part of the community sufficiently dislikes the proposed >>>> UCOC, we simply lose them, and some may become vociferous opponents because >>>> reasonably fixable issues were ignored. Taking longer and getting it closer >>>> to right is to me a better plan. You may not care about some of the issues >>>> that needed to be fixed, but some of us do. >>>> >>>> Cheers, Peter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Chico Venancio [mailto:chicocvenan...@gmail.com] >>>> *Sent:* 04 January 2023 20:48 >>>> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List >>>> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Upcoming vote on the revised Enforcement >>>> Guidelines for the Universal Code of Conduct >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Patrick, >>>> Five months ago I wrote in the Movement Strategy forum:[1] >>>> >>>> Could we have clear criteria for approval of the guidelines? I find it >>>> pretty frustrating that a vote was taken and the majority is being ignored >>>> to review a few points that are not even central to the functioning of the >>>> UCoC. Can we suspend these sections for further review and enforce the UCoC >>>> now? >>>> >>>> The first reference I find to UCoC is in june of 2019, and I fear any >>>> participation in this now 3 year long process of creating a universal code >>>> of conduct is pointless, as goalposts can always be shifted later. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Could we have an answer? What is the goalpost here? Will this vote >>>> result be respected? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Kind regards, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> https://forum.movement-strategy.org/t/revisions-to-the-universal-code-of-conduct-ucoc-enforcement-guidelines/377/15?u=chicocvenancio >>>> >>>> Chico Venancio >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Em qua., 4 de jan. de 2023 às 15:41, Patrick Earley < >>>> pear...@wikimedia.org> escreveu: >>>> >>>> *You can find this message translated into additional languages on >>>> Meta-wiki. >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Revised_enforcement_guidelines/Announcement/Voting_1>* >>>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> In mid-January 2023, the Enforcement Guidelines >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Revised_enforcement_guidelines> >>>> for >>>> the Universal Code of Conduct >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> >>>> will >>>> undergo a second community-wide ratification vote. [1][2] This follows the >>>> March 2022 vote >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Enforcement_guidelines/Voting/Results>, >>>> which resulted in a majority of voters supporting the Enforcement >>>> Guidelines. [3] During the vote, participants helped highlight important >>>> community concerns. The Board’s Community Affairs Committee >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Community_Affairs_Committee> >>>> requested >>>> that these areas of concern be reviewed. [4] >>>> >>>> The volunteer-led Revisions Committee >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee#Revisions_Committee_members> >>>> worked >>>> hard reviewing community input and making changes. [5] They updated areas >>>> of concern, such as training and affirmation requirements, privacy and >>>> transparency in the process, and readability and translatability of the >>>> document itself. >>>> >>>> The revised Enforcement Guidelines can be viewed *here >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Revised_enforcement_guidelines>*, >>>> and a comparison of changes can be found *here >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Revised_enforcement_guidelines/Comparison>*. >>>> [6][7] >>>> >>>> *How to vote?* >>>> >>>> Beginning *January 17, 2023*, voting will be open. *This page on >>>> Meta-wiki >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Revised_enforcement_guidelines/Voter_information>* >>>> outlines >>>> information on how to vote using SecurePoll. >>>> >>>> *Who can vote?* >>>> >>>> The *eligibility requirements >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Revised_enforcement_guidelines/Voter_information#Voting_eligibility>* >>>> for >>>> this vote are the same as for the Wikimedia Board of Trustees elections. >>>> See the voter information page for more details about voter eligibility. If >>>> you are an eligible voter, you can use your Wikimedia account to access the >>>> voting server. >>>> >>>> *What happens after the vote?* >>>> >>>> Votes will be scrutinized by an independent group of volunteers, and >>>> the results will be published on Wikimedia-l, the Movement Strategy Forum, >>>> Diff and on Meta-wiki. Voters will again be able to vote and share concerns >>>> they have about the guidelines. The Board of Trustees will look at the >>>> levels of support and concerns raised as they look at how the Enforcement >>>> Guidelines should be ratified or developed further. >>>> >>>> On behalf of the UCoC Project Team, >>>> >>>> Patrick >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> >>>> [1], [6] Revised Enforcement Guidelines: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Revised_enforcement_guidelines >>>> >>>> [2] Universal Code of Conduct: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct >>>> >>>> [3] March 2022 vote results: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Enforcement_guidelines/Voting/Results >>>> >>>> [4] Community Affairs Committee: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Community_Affairs_Committee >>>> >>>> [5] Revisions Committee: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee#Revisions_Committee >>>> >>>> [7] Comparison page: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Revised_enforcement_guidelines/Comparison >>>> >>>> [8] Voter information: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Revised_enforcement_guidelines/Voter_information >>>> >>>> [9] Voting eligibility: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Revised_enforcement_guidelines/Voter_information#Voting_eligibility >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Patrick Earley >>>> >>>> Lead Trust & Safety Policy Manager >>>> >>>> Wikimedia Foundation >>>> >>>> pear...@wikimedia.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, >>>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>> and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> Public archives at >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/M4GCCGMDV5MUV7UYBFLHH6B5EFCDQJEV/ >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> >>>> >>>> Virus-free.www.avg.com >>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, >>>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>> and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> Public archives at >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/VOKFVRR6AMYKL47PXLYI2CL7E26ZU3GK/ >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, >>>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>> and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> Public archives at >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/OUSO4MZ5Y4NVQDQNTHNBYEBUZWWGENFT/ >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines >>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> Public archives at >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/AWUSCBCFU7DF7CY3S2DQ2HOL6D2HDQHY/ >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/DVA7I5TUHSNJAAYKOBD6O77FJT35E2MK/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/KBB2CGOXT2SFO2EP5RYKUT36DOYKUCIE/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
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