I think that is a reasonable position - and I also feel that there are reasonable arguments to continue (e.g. if the situation is likely to just repeat itself - would that help anything?). I have not yet made up my mind, I don't know enough about the underlying reasons. What I do know, is that the current situation is a mess.
I however don't think we should halt the longer term discussion until the short-ish scenario has entirely played out. My impression was that this thread is focused on that longer term, and I'll observe the shorter-term conversation for more arguments. Lodewijk On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 3:21 PM Ivan Martínez <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Lodewijk. As we have said in our letters, what should happen as a > solution is that this process *should be halted and a new one begun*, as > this one is clearly marred by irreversible situations, improvised > decisions, and exclusions that are gradually becoming clear. Hopefully, the > Board will have the sensitivity and humility to be able to get back on > track. > > El vie, 10 oct 2025 a las 3:15, effe iets anders (< > [email protected]>) escribió: > >> Aside from all process concerns I have: If we want our leadership to be >> part of public conversations - heck, if we want *potential* future leaders >> to be part of critical debate inside and outside of Wikimedia, it is a very >> dangerous precedent to set that candidates are removed from consideration >> for posts in the past. This is a dangerous risk in regular politics as well >> as Wikimedia. >> >> I don't know yet what the right solution would be. If these candidates >> would pose insurmountable legal risks (I haven't seen the full information >> available to the board, and I'm sure it was accompanied by a legal analysis >> of sorts) - we could push back as a community. However, I also realize that >> the board has a tremendous responsibility. Their duty is to ensure the >> continued existence of the Wikimedia Foundation forever. And I don't envy >> their responsibility right now, given the developing political, legal (and >> financial!) landscape in the United States. >> >> I really appreciate Clovermoss' broader approach to think about >> solutions. I'm not convinced that the right approach is to push through >> candidates. I'm really sad for both R. and L.*, who have amazing qualities >> both, who I admire as a Wikimedian and colleague. Let us acknowledge at >> least briefly that this must be at the least a bit of a personal drama for >> them - they did not deserve this. At this time, I'm also not convinced the >> WMF is doing the right thing to move forward with the election - but >> honestly, I haven't heard many great alternatives either. >> >> What I do think we really have to ask ourselves in the coming year, is >> whether our current structure with a WMF board that has both the legal >> responsibility for everything, and in some way is the only strategy-setting >> body that we have as a movement, is perhaps placing a bit too much >> responsibility to place on a single body. I recall that one of the main >> outcomes of the movement charter process was to address this - and while >> the specifics of that solution were maybe not perfect, this drama does >> reinforce to me that the principal idea of moving away to a more balanced >> system may be more important than ever. >> >> Lodewijk >> >> *(just abbreviating their names here because I don't like that our >> discussions on this will be the results of search queries for eternity) >> >> On Thu, Oct 9, 2025 at 5:06 PM Hannah Clover < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Oops, I said that already. Sorry, carry on 😅. >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2025, 10:58 a.m. Hannah Clover < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I also wanted to say that I welcome other people's voices on the >>>> discussion page on my reform petition. My story is just one of many and our >>>> collective voices matter. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2025, 10:44 a.m. Owen Blacker <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Victoria, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for at least presenting your personal perspective on the >>>>> disqualification of these 2 candidates. >>>>> >>>>> I have to say, though, this seems to me like the least charitable >>>>> possible view anyone could have taken from both candidates' statements. >>>>> >>>>> I'm sure this is not what you intended, but what I read from your >>>>> message is that: >>>>> >>>>> 1️⃣ A bad-faith smear campaign from Israel will be enough to rule out >>>>> any candidate who posts pro-Palestine, anti-Zionist messages, and >>>>> disenfranchise voters who would support a candidate who opposes Israel's >>>>> genocide of the Palestinians. >>>>> >>>>> 2️⃣ A single Board member having expressed anti-Israel comments on >>>>> social media is more likely to bring the WMF into disrepute than rumours >>>>> of >>>>> the Foundation being careful to appease the ADL, a propagandist >>>>> organisation that disseminates disinformation, that conflates any >>>>> criticism >>>>> of Israel with antisemitism and that denies that a genocide is currently >>>>> occurring in territories under Israeli control. >>>>> >>>>> 3️⃣ A candidate who is looking to increase transparency and help the >>>>> community better understand the work of the Board is immediately assumed >>>>> to >>>>> be incapable of recognising a need for privacy around any of those areas — >>>>> even despite that candidate already being trusted by 2 different >>>>> Affiliates >>>>> with equivalently sensitive Board-level information. >>>>> >>>>> If the vetting process is immediately assuming pro-Palestinian >>>>> viewpoints and pro-transparency viewpoints to be incompatible with Board >>>>> membership, then the vetting process is not fit for purpose. >>>>> >>>>> I am finding it increasingly difficult to trust the judgement of a >>>>> Board who thinks these 2 candidates are so dangerous that they cannot be >>>>> voted on or trusted to be onboarded appropriately. This is exacerbated >>>>> when >>>>> the most recent other activities I have seen from the Board are replacing >>>>> a >>>>> queer woman of colour from a non Free nation-state of the Global South >>>>> with >>>>> a white financier from New York City (who I am sure is very competent) and >>>>> publishing a policy that seems solely designed to stop the Arabic-language >>>>> Wikipedia from displaying a flag on its logo because it makes some people >>>>> who are currently supporting a genocide feel uncomfortable. >>>>> >>>>> The Board seems to think the extremist viewpoints of the news media of >>>>> a country that is being condemned by a substantial proportion of the >>>>> planet >>>>> are more important to its reputation than representing the wider community >>>>> and its diversity. Given that the Foundation is hosted and staffed >>>>> predominantly from a country that is currently falling to anti-democratic >>>>> extremism, it is hard to have trust and hope that the Foundation is >>>>> willing >>>>> and able to fight for knowledge and diversity in the face of rising hate >>>>> and disinformation. >>>>> >>>>> (To be clear, I too am writing as an individual, not as a >>>>> representative of any organisation I am a part of.) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Owen Blacker, Cardiff GB, he/him >>>>> User:OwenBlacker >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>>> guidelines at: >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>> Public archives at >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/RXF3WVGJDYYQCNILC2EREKXSXTSBXN2V/ >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines >>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> Public archives at >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/EXMAARA3DDT5PIFED3MMPFKJVY2HDPDS/ >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/47GLBZHNSBM2KVLWI6FFA7V7JMKIA3M5/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > -- > *Iván Martínez* > > *Voluntario - Wikimedia México A.C.User:ProtoplasmaKid * > > // Mis comunicaciones respecto a Wikipedia/Wikimedia pueden tener una > moratoria en su atención debido a que es un voluntariado. > // Ayuda a proteger a Wikipedia, dona ahora: https://donate.wikimedia.org >
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