I have tried the google translator to translate some en article into Malayalam. around 5, 6.
The difficulty which I felt was the word to word translation. We have a difference in style. Though we translate content of lot en wiki articles to ML, we dont do it as a word by word. we need to change the sentence, or sometimes the entire explanation in the way we write the ml articles. I left that option of google translator for ml wiki now. regards Rameshng On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Shiju Alex <shijualexonl...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ravi, > > Here is my view on your questions. > >> However, a majority of the Tamil Wiki community is showing stiff >> resistance for this operation. > > I too support them :). Word-to-word translation is not good from the reader > point of view. It may kill the project also. > > >> 1. Is Paid editing against Wikipedia principles or spirit? > > Yes, according to me. > >> 2. Besides the article count etc., Wiki is first of all a vibrant and >> healthy community of like minded individuals interacting on a friendly note. >> This is very important in a small community especially. But this operation >> creates a divide like regular Wikipedians Vs Google Translators. User - > >> User interaction has changed to User - > Google - > Translation team >> coordinator interaction. From friendly reminders we have reached a >> complaining stage. >> >> Is this good for the community in the long run? > > No it is not good for the community or for wiki. > >> 3. Who benefits more from this operation? Google or Wiki? Even if it is >> assumed that it will serve the language ultimately, who has the control in >> this operation? Of course, the Wiki communities have the control but they >> haven't exercised yet. >> >> This can hardly be considered partnership or collaboration. Google has not >> been transparent on this so far. > > Of course. Google will benefit more. Wiki will get many artificial > word-to-word translated articles from which the readers will run away. > Google will enhance their English to Tamil translator tool through this > exercise. > >> 4. Wikipedia is a volunteer project and Wikipedians contribute out of free >> will. Is this free will ensured for the Google Translators? (choice of >> articles, translation style, work load, tool for translation etc.,) > > No. since they are translating articles for money. And wikipedians will not > have time to go through each and every word that they translate. I think > Tamil wikipedians need to concentrate more on tamil wikipedia article > contest now. So who will review the Google translated articles. > >> 5. Use of Google translation kit is not wrong per se. But the Kit is >> partly responsible for many of the issues. Is it right to continue using >> this without cleaning up existing articles? > > I am against any type of word to word translation of English Wiki articles > to any other language. We have tried this Malayalam Wikipedia 3 years > before. We discontinued that since we found that exercise is creating > artificial articles which is not good from the reader point of view. > >> 6. Not all en wiki articles are the best. Some have factual errors and >> some have bias. Especially, articles on culture, politics etc., Is it good >> to translate them as it is? A paid translator can hardly be expected or >> allowed to correct them. > > Your concern is true. > >> 7. Style of English and Style of Indian languages are quite different. >> Since the translation is done through the kit, we can see literal >> translations resulting in a dry or artificial style in the local language. >> This can harm the nature of the local language in long run. Translation is >> OK but not everywhere and as it is. > > True. I already mentioned this above. > >> 8. IS THE WIKIMEDIA FOUNDATION AWARE OF THIS OPERATION ? WHAT IS ITS VIEW? >> Its view need not be binding on the local community. Nevertheless it will be >> interesting to know. > > It is the local wiki community to decide about this. > >> 9. WHY HASN'T GOOGLE ANNOUNCED ABOUT THIS PROJECT OPENLY YET? Google has >> emphasized many times that it doesn't create information but only organizes >> it. Whenever it showed hints of creating information, it was highly noted >> with concern. This operation is a clear move towards information creation. > > Since they are not sure whether this project will happen. > >> On the outset, this looks like a good gesture from Google to Indian >> language Wikis. But it should also be noted in the context Google and >> Wikmedia are both powerful entities in the Internet and one's effect on >> another should be watched. > > Google's only aim is to enhance their English- Indian language translator > tools. All other discussions are the ways to achieve that aim. > > > Shiju > > > > On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Ravishankar <ravidre...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> An update on the Google translated articles issue in Tamil Wiki. >> >> We exchanged few emails with the Google team and had a conference call >> once and the progress so far has been: >> >> * Google gets our approval on article topics before translating. >> * Some of the software issues have been promised to be addressed (too many >> red links etc.,) >> * One or two co-coordinators from the translation team are checking the >> talk page discussions and making needed changes. But if there are no talk >> page suggestions the articles are virtually unattended. >> >> However, a majority of the Tamil Wiki community is showing stiff >> resistance for this operation. Besides the quality of translation we are >> concerned about this on a philosophical note. >> >> We would like to seek the opinion of the larger Indian Wiki community on a >> philosophical angle in this issue. It will be definitely helpful before we >> decide the next step: >> >> 1. Is Paid editing against Wikipedia principles or spirit? >> >> 2. Besides the article count etc., Wiki is first of all a vibrant and >> healthy community of like minded individuals interacting on a friendly note. >> This is very important in a small community especially. But this operation >> creates a divide like regular Wikipedians Vs Google Translators. User - > >> User interaction has changed to User - > Google - > Translation team >> coordinator interaction. From friendly reminders we have reached a >> complaining stage. >> >> Is this good for the community in the long run? >> >> 3. Who benefits more from this operation? Google or Wiki? Even if it is >> assumed that it will serve the language ultimately, who has the control in >> this operation? Of course, the Wiki communities have the control but they >> haven't exercised yet. >> >> This can hardly be considered partnership or collaboration. Google has not >> been transparent on this so far. >> >> 4. Wikipedia is a volunteer project and Wikipedians contribute out of free >> will. Is this free will ensured for the Google Translators? (choice of >> articles, translation style, work load, tool for translation etc.,) >> >> 5. Use of Google translation kit is not wrong per se. But the Kit is >> partly responsible for many of the issues. Is it right to continue using >> this without cleaning up existing articles? >> >> 6. Not all en wiki articles are the best. Some have factual errors and >> some have bias. Especially, articles on culture, politics etc., Is it good >> to translate them as it is? A paid translator can hardly be expected or >> allowed to correct them. >> >> 7. Style of English and Style of Indian languages are quite different. >> Since the translation is done through the kit, we can see literal >> translations resulting in a dry or artificial style in the local language. >> This can harm the nature of the local language in long run. Translation is >> OK but not everywhere and as it is. >> >> 8. IS THE WIKIMEDIA FOUNDATION AWARE OF THIS OPERATION ? WHAT IS ITS VIEW? >> Its view need not be binding on the local community. Nevertheless it will be >> interesting to know. >> >> 9. WHY HASN'T GOOGLE ANNOUNCED ABOUT THIS PROJECT OPENLY YET? Google has >> emphasized many times that it doesn't create information but only organizes >> it. Whenever it showed hints of creating information, it was highly noted >> with concern. This operation is a clear move towards information creation. >> >> On the outset, this looks like a good gesture from Google to Indian >> language Wikis. But it should also be noted in the context Google and >> Wikmedia are both powerful entities in the Internet and one's effect on >> another should be watched. >> >> Regards, >> >> Ravi >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > > _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
