+1 Debanjan! On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:11 PM, Debanjan Bandyopadhyay < debast...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey all, > > Let me introduce myself first. I too am a CA in fact a second gen one. I > initially decided not to reply to this mail stream at all as there is > nothing but a blame game going on. > > But after all the personal attacks, I've decided to be on the front-line > along with my CA family. Ok, firstly, I don't really get this issue of the > Indian Community not being aware. I mean, yes, you can blame Hisham for not > enrolling the community but as the copyvios started flooding and the > students started editing, we hardly saw anyone from the Indian Community. > Even the Global community was unaware, but they sought out the information > and made their presence felt such that they demanded information. > > The Indian community however, still expects that students will come to > them for help and they shall help. I remember attending the meeting last > month. I was very excited as I was new to Wikipedia India community, Pune > chapter. But am sorry to say, saying that the meeting was fruitful would be > nothing but a vast exaggeration. I mean, we explained to the community as > to how we and our Indian culture and education system were suffering > personal attacks and we really needed assistance in replying back to them, > but all the community was interested in was going to the students why they > should not do copyvio which, we had already given tons of sessions for. > > In fact, the mere suggestion of Ram to create custom welcome templates for > the students was only agreed upon in theory and never came to life. > Unfortunately, attacking the CA's on their edit count is a way, in which > you can belittle their efforts, blame it on everyone else and just show how > right you are. > > The very aspect as to how this whole discussion is turning into only a > blame game shows the fragmentation of the Indian community to which I feel > to be a part of also. > > As for OA's, I'm sorry but I can speak for myself to state I received zero > help from my assigned OA's. I tried a lot on my part to reach out and get > help but I had to man 100+ students * 2 subjects all on my own as my fellow > CA also left my side. The active CA's were a big support, like Ram and a > few others. > > What is not visible in Wikipedia is the amount of hard work we CA's put in > physically. I spent time every day teaching 100 students individually how > to create a sandbox, my edit count does not show that contribution, I am > sorry to say. I spent day and night searching for copyvios. Its only > because of us CA's that the extent of copyvios was scaled to a lesser > extent before the emergency OA's came in. > > As for that Brazilian CA, he has been there since 2007, so I don't really > get how you can compare him to Ram. The funniest thing however that I find > is the name of the email chain, death and post mortem?? I mean, firstly, > the IEP is not dead. Being the CA of SSE, I can say for certain, it was > successfully implemented in SSE. I'd say at least 20 students are now > permanent Wikipedians who might have done copyvio, but rectified and came > back strong. > > I hate this blame game of Nitika and Hisham as well as the other CA's. I > am sorry to say, I had no help from the Indian community. All that I know > about detecting copyvio was taught to me by Kudpung and Moonriddengirl, the > rest I learnt along the way. Kudpung too was not expected to teach me, but > he still did, and that is what I call as the true spirit of a Wikipedian, > imparting knowledge. > > Having a huge number of edits may make you well known to the community at > large but for a bunch of students who have just started and don't even know > how to check an edit count, its useless knowledge to them. They will hardly > reach out to OA's. Most of the queries I got were not on my talk page but > via phone calls and in person chat. I carried my laptop around showing > anyone and everyone who wanted to know what to do. > > We accept the mistakes we made but this blame game has to stop. What is > the point of it all?? Form a constructive platform in moving forward not > step back and say, "I told you so". That's just childish and immature. > > As for the rampant voices who judge our experience, I welcome you to come > to the colleges, deal with over 1000+ students and see how your words can > totally inspire them to create non-copyright articles. Please, it will be a > learning experience for me. Ask Srikeit, I invited him once, only about 16 > people attended. The rest 80+ in SSE, asked me face to face at a later > time. Would any of you be willing to spend so much time answering their > queries from 9am to 2am?? I'd love to get that kind of support and give the > students a few of your numbers. > > Calculate that into my edit count please and am sure, I won't fair that > badly. > > -- > Regards, > Debanjan* > user:debastein <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Debastein> > - Lets make this world a better and more informative place* > > > > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Srikanth Lakshmanan > <srik....@gmail.com>wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 13:08, Ram Shankar Yadav < >> ramshankarya...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> *This is exactly the kind of cluelessness i am referring to. The >>> [[WP:COMPETENCE]] exists exactly for this purpose - we dont want "kids", >>> who will "mess up" by "drawing mangoes and bananas" here. We want atleast >>> semi competent, interested people who can act responsibly.* >>> * >>> * >>> *- *First of all stop playing those policy games, before looking at >>> [[WP:COMPETENCE]] I would rather say to have a look at [[WP:DONTBITE]]. >>> >> >> BITE is suppressing one on the wiki when someone is trying to contribute. >> Here he is citing the policy for an analysis of a project not mentioning >> any one in particular, certainly this is NOT BITING. >> >> >>> >>> *But then, i should expect this general cluelessness and ignorance >>> from a "campus ambassador" with a grand total of 41 mainspace edits?. * >>> * >>> * >>> - Dude you are getting personal here, I respect you obsession with >>> numbers but the whole idea of a "campus ambassador" is to help others to >>> edit, instead of writing articles for edit count. You just took one number >>> and creating all the fuss but you ignored others like ... >>> >>> Total Edits :705 (in last 5 months) >>> Article 49 7.09% >>> Talk 6 0.87% >>> *User 185 26.77%* >>> *User talk 238 34.44%* >>> *Wikipedia 144 20.84%* >>> Wikipedia talk 26 3.76% >>> Template 37 5.35% >>> Help 6 0.87% >>> >>> For more stats : >>> http://toolserver.org/~soxred93/pcount/index.php?name=Ramshankaryadav&lang=en&wiki=wikipedia >>> >> >> He brought up numbers since you called him "misfit" (trolls happen only >> when people feed from both sides). One must consider the fact that he was a >> OA in PPP (Remember OA for PPP was selected after following careful >> process) and unlike IEP (where people are blaming the selection of OA as >> well [1]). While I greatly appreciate what you and other CA's did doing >> physical outreach and reaching out to students, but you could have 1000x >> better if you had better edit count. They are not mere stats which people >> boast, they are "experience". Being an ambassador is about helping out yes, >> but not just motivating, helping on wiki syntax. The experience allows to >> share better insight on policies, rules of the game. I am not particularly >> blaming you, probably design of IEP (or even PPP if PPP also followed the >> same model of immature CA). I , along with several editors(Even Ashwin >> raised the same point on the thread) had a problem with this too and is >> still not being acknowledged even after the results. All we are asking CA's >> is to "Practice before you preach". Is that wrong? >> >> In my view scale and quality of students were a bigger problems and got >> multiplied, but that doesn't mean everything else was right in place. We >> will learn only if we acknowledge all the proper reasons. There is no need >> of finger pointing, we need to learn the lessons and the first step would >> be to acknowledge. >> >> >>> Apart from the numbers we got the experience of personally touching >>> 1000+ students and interacting with Faculty and Directors, which you can >>> not do by siting and editing Wikipedia in your living room. I'm not a >>> 14000+ editor like you but I share the same philosophy of free knowledge, >>> but instead of respecting us you are doing all the mud throwing, it's not >>> acceptable at all!! >>> >> >> I had already given the credit you guys deserved above, You dont know >> what he has done beyond the 14000+ edits, so please refrain from commenting >> on others ability to do things without knowing what they have done. >> >> I particularly find it sad when people run over and mail when there are >> "percieved personal attacks on newbies" but many keep quiet when senior >> members are told "misfit", 'questioning "siting and editing Wikipedia in >> your living room" ' >> >> [1] >> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_-_India_Programs/Education_Program#Online_Ambassadors_to_be_checked >> >> -- >> Regards >> Srikanth.L >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > >
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