On 02/22/2012 07:00 AM, wikimediaindia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org wrote: > From: Srikanth Lakshmanan <srik....@gmail.com> To: Wikimedia India > Community list <wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Cc: WMF > Localisation team <localisation-t...@lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: Re: > [Wikimediaindia-l] Localisation and internationalisation bugs affecting > Indic language communities Message-ID: > <ca+30aunziw70guq189dlp0wf2ttgijxl5vndzebp3+r3pbq...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at > 10:54, Sumana Harihareswara <suma...@wikimedia.org>wrote: >> > On 02/20/2012 07:00 AM, wikimediaindia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.orgwrote: >>> > > Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:23:08 +0530 >>> > > From: Srikanth Lakshmanan <srik....@gmail.com> >>> > > If you are asking only about technical issues, many communities do log >> > bugs >>> > > from time to time. But when they remain open beyond certain period and >> > the >>> > > person who logged becomes inactive, they go into black hole and there is >> > no >>> > > one to follow up(even if its fixed, they remain open). >> > > There is nothing to be distressed here. > > >> > Srikanth, this is distressing to hear! If you could point to some >> > specific Bugzilla reports that have gone into the "black hole", >> > including ones that no longer reflect reality, I could help ask the >> > localisation team to follow up and at least put some updated information >> > in the issues at bugzilla.wikimedia.org . >> > > They are called "black hole" for the reason anyone(apart from the filer / > folks who conversed) might not be able to easily spot them. In most cases > the bugs lack update from the filers / language communities. But again if > the filer is from one generation and has retired, who does the follow up? > Ideally language support teams must do it. But all of us know Indic > communities have very few people to look into these and the common pattern > I have found across few communities I have interacted is that spending time > on bugzilla / improving technology/language support is not going to change > things big way, so I might as well be contented (Ex:- "Why Narayam when js > works fine") with whats there and do my editing. But at some point, > communities need to focus on these, as and when the communities grow, they > will also get contributors who are interested in supporting the language > technically. > >> > But the larger >>> > > issues are common and pretty much known to i18n team. (like say PDF >>> > > rendering). I tried cleaning up Tamil related bugs recently which were >>> > > documented here[1] since 2006, also created a tracking bug[2]. >>> > > >>> > > But then as someone else said, "People are just waiting for one more >>> > > tracking bug to fix those. !" //So tracking bugs don't help beyond a >> > point ! >> > >> > This is also distressing to hear! I'm not quite sure what was implied >> > there -- did the speaker mean that the localisation team won't address >> > certain problems until there are more tracking bugs to help track >> > issues, or something else? >> > > The quote was from one of the bugs I remember seeing on bugzilla, said by > someone on a totally different bug nothing related to localization. The > point I implied quoting it was "process for the sake of it doesn't help > much beyond a point". Adding tracking bugs does not impact the age of the > bug. The bugs remain open either because they are hard to solve / lack of > bandwidth / lack of input / variety of other reasons, not because no one is > tracking them. Adding a tracking bug wont magically fix the bug / help in > the getting it to closure. But tracking bug serves useful especially for > anyone new to see what are problem areas, how can I help fix / test / not > report duplicate bugs etc. > > > >>> > > Most, if not all Indic issues would be tagged with i18n keyword on >> > bugzilla. >>> > > >> > Yes, adding the i18n keyword to an issue in Bugzilla will help bring it >> > to the attention of the localisation team. >> > > Another point, Not all Indic wikipedia related issues are i18n issues, > though there might be heavy overlap. There are site requests like changing > logo,namespace, installing extensions <<whatever>>. The point to note is, > when someone does these things in any Indic community(which already have > tiny community), please keep the community widely posted / document these > somewhere.Not just issues, but solutions/workarounds, gadgets used, things > like abuse filter rules(if any) and its rationale behind etc. This will > help someone else in your community(who may come years later) to follow up > even if you retire / had forgotten. Fortunately Tamil Wiki community did > that from the beginning(at least the major ones,if not everything) in the > form of a page[1] and I was able to go through,know the past issues,update > it after almost 2 years! I felt a tracking bug might be easier to track on > issues than a page, so I just created one. > > >> > Thanks for mentioning this problem, Srikanth. > > This problem is not restricted to bugzilla. This may even happen in say in > translation or anything, where only a subset (ideally 1-2 in a community of > 10) involve in the activities and do not document / pass over the knowledge > properly.Smaller Wikipedias must not rely on select individual on anything > so much that they become extinct/dormant after their wiki-time > (Insert story of Bishnupriya Manipuri) I hope Shiju is reading and might > be able to relate to it / research on solutions :) > > > [1] http://tawp.in/r/3hl > > -- Regards
Thanks for the reply and for giving more perspective on these issues, Srikanth. I know that other people who work actively on localisation and internationalisation, and on helping nurture smaller Wikimedia projects, can speak with more experience and knowledge than I can. But I do want to mention here the language support teams https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Language_support_team which are a structure that could help with some of the problems that you mentioned. -- Sumana Harihareswara Volunteer Development Coordinator Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
