Hello Subhashish, I would put a few of my reflections. Responses in line.
On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 6:15 PM Subhashish Panigrahi <psubhash...@gmail.com> wrote: > Just to clarify, my responses below are not about Rahul at all but in > general - > Yes ! The issue is much larger. > > What Bodhi wrote earlier makes sense, “participation for chairpersons > meetup is not eligibility criteria to gain a scholarship as it is an > informal meetup”. A Wikimania participant gets to attend many such informal > meetups, and I’d like to believe that they certainly add value to the > movement. But participation in such small little occasion (not small as > less worthy but small as compared to a large formal event) does not really > justify a 3-4 day-long travel which affects one’s personal/work life (as > you rightly put it). > I believe judgements should only be made based on objectivity. I am not too sure if being a speaker on a global platform can be called upon as a 'such small little occassion'. Then, how do we make judgements ? Through reports, learning patterns, minutes of the meeting etc. In fact, we all such contemplate on the reports and learning patterns as found on the Meta Page. It clearly states how this agenda would be further worked upon and then taken up in the next meeting. We all should give suggestions. Thank You, Subhashish for bringing up the issue of reporting. Also, Subhashish, now that you have appropriate bandwidth, I believe refelctions on the Bengaluru meetup can be done. It would be a great learning experience for delegrates attending next year Wikimedia Conference. :) . Please Note : No Attempts to deviate from the topic. > > Also, I personally think that if a question is directed towards an > organization, it’s better to wait for sometime until they get back. We, as > a community, have quite some time now until next Wikimania to set a better > standard and fix if something is broken. :) > Of Course ! Both Wikimedia India and CIS-A2K are responsive and this is a welcome step. I would like to bring to attention, once the Wikimedia India Program Director had initiated an idea that particular volunteer to attend only two Wikimania and in turn leave space for other volunteers. Some of our community members have been visiting Wikimania like from Hong Kong Wikimania in 2013, United Kingdom Wikimania in 2014, Mexico Wikimania in 2015, Italy Wikimania in 2016, Canadan Wikimania in 2017 and now South Afrcia. This is just a suggestion floated since the idea of next year Wikimania is discussed. Wikimedia Projects are about the art of giving and making space for other volunteers could just be one step. > > A2K providing support to the community (Wikimedia India included) in > general is a good practice. Maybe this is the right time for the community > to come forward to share what they feel should be the right way (or ways) > A2K could follow while supporting someone from Wikimedia India. The way > they support the individual Wikimedians (from the scholarship waitlist) > seems fairly simple and straightforward. Supporting WMIN lies in a grey > area because one individual from 7 people gets selected. The consensus > process involved in that process need to be more transparent. > Yes ! Definitely. Transparency is the key. I am glad that CIS-A2K stood firm in apologising. This is a very welcome step. However as pointed out in my previous mail, supporting a scholarship reciepient in waiting and a speaker are two different subjects. I am not sure if judgements such as 'grey areas' should be made but Yes it calls for a discussion on how things should work upon. The consensus process is also something that calls for a discussion. From informing the team members to taking consensus, the community's will on this should be recorded with the Chapter. It is nice to hear that EC was copied in the request mail and aderance to transparecy is being made. > > Subhashish > P.S : I may be slow in responses to future mails for the next 6 days. I am no travel. Abhinav > > On Aug 5, 2018, at 2:27 PM, Bodhisattwa Mandal < > bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I was expecting a reply from WMIN. > > Thanks, > Bodhisattwa > > On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 14:25 Abhinav srivastava, <abhinav...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hello Bodhisattva, >> >> Please allow me to respond to your confusions. Responses in line. >> >> Again, as stated in my first mail on the thread, you are making too many >> value-judgments with un-friendly tone. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 12:27 PM Bodhisattwa Mandal < >> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Yohann, >>> >>> Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. >>> >>> >>> I have read your previous e-mail very carefully, without missing a >>> single word. >>> >>> My question still stands. Many apologies, if I have not been able to >>> make it clear in my previous mails, so I am adding some more perspective. >>> >>> 1) Chairpersons meeting in Wikimania is informal. It's not related to >>> the main program of Wikimania. For example, like many other informal >>> meetups, there happens to be a steward meetup every year in Wikimania. Now, >>> if one steward, who have not received scholarship, is invited in the >>> meetup, then he/she will have to spend his own money to attend the meeting. >>> Same principle lies here, participation for chairpersons meetup is not >>> eligibility criteria to gain a scholarship as it is an informal meetup. Can >>> you please provide some documentation, where it is written that scholarship >>> would be provided to attend informal meetups? Because if that is true, >>> everyone will find someone to invite themselves to attend informal meetups >>> in Wikimania and ask for scholarship from WMIN from next year. >>> >> >> If you check the agenda section, WMIN President gave a talk on Conflict >> Resolution, this is followed my summary in the notes. When there are so >> many conflicts in Wikimedia communities across the globle, someone from >> India is invited to put this theories towards resolution. This is a welcome >> step. From Notes to his Summary Talk to how this will be carried forward >> for future course, every thing is documented. >> >> He did not simply attend the meeting as a participant or representing >> Wikimedia India, he was a lead on the 3rd point of the Agenda which is >> Conflcit Resolution. Everything on it is documented. >> >> >>> 2) I have checked and rechecked the minute[1] and event page[2] of >>> chairpersons meeting of Wikimedia Conference, Berlin. Nowhere there is a >>> proof that he has attended that meeting. So, I have doubt that he was >>> invited at all because there is no point to invite someone who didn't >>> attend the meeting previously even he was present there. Can you >>> provide the documentation of his invitation? >>> >>> [1] >>> https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/chairpersons_meeting_April_20%2C_2018 >>> >>> [2] >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_April_20_2018 >>> >> I am sure when Wikimedia India President is invited to give a talk on a >> defined Agenda, 'Conflict Resolution' and CIS-A2K is approving his request, >> he must on record have recieved an invitation. >> >> It cannot be that without an invitation someone would travel so far. >> Also, please remember, unlike WMF staff or CIS-A2K, when someone from >> Wikimedia India has to travel, he has to forgoe his personal paid holidays. >> WMF staff or CIS-A2K travel abroad calling it 'On Work'. >> >>> 3) As I said earlier, even if I believe that he was invited, already >>> there were 2 EC members (Viswa and Krishna) present in Wikimania who went >>> there with full scholarship. You can check that president's participation >>> is not at all mandatory. Why WMIN didn't told them to attend the >>> informal meeting of chairpersons on behalf of the Chapter? Are they >>> considered unfit or incapable to attend the meeting, if yes, why so? >>> >> This is about merit of the particular individual. This has nothing to do >> with the other Two EC. >> >> Secondly, stating this again, he didn't travel simply to attend the >> meeting, he was given a set agenda to speak that is 'Conflict Resolution'. >> It was a subject of one's personal merit on which the organising committee >> invited him, this cannot be passed to other members of the same affiliate. >> >>> 4) Lastly, Wikimania and Wikimedia Conference are not the same. Whereas >>> Wikimedia Conference is for affiliates, Wikimania is for volunteers. So, >>> sending an affiliate representative with the donation money, depriving a >>> Wikimedia volunteer who was in the waiting list and supposed to attend the >>> conference, is utter misuse of power and money. Can you please explain >>> that? >>> >> I do not think that if Wikimedia India President didn't go someone else >> would have been promoted. CIS-A2K should give a clarification on this. >> >> Simply stating it once again, he didn't just travel to attend the >> conference, he was a speaker. This is entirely a different subject. >> >>> 5) Lastly, did WMIN inform the volunteer who was supposed to attend the >>> conference, that Rahul Desmukh has been sent instead of him, because Rahul >>> is the president of WMIN whereas he is just a volunteer? >>> >> In response to statement 4. >> >>> >>> I am sure, you will read my e-mail carefully as I did to yours. Also, I >>> hope this mail won't affect the friendship between us and you won't take it >>> personally. >>> >>> Waiting for your detailed reply, >>> >>> Bodhisattwa >>> >> >> Additional Comment : When someone India is selected or rather invited to >> give talk in an attempt to resolve the global problem. For me, this is a >> welcome step. >> >> I am sorry but again I find you to harsh towards the India Chapter. This >> is my personal observation. >> >> Abhinav >> >> >>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 11:08 Yohann Thomas, <yohan...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> (sorry for the delay, just following the 24hrs email rule) >>>> >>>> Hi Bodhi >>>> >>>> I would request you to please read my email completely. If you want, I >>>> can give you an excerpt of my email, which should answer your questions. >>>> >>>> //In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier >>>> attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & >>>> then subsequently was *invited* to Wikimania, especially the >>>> Chairperson's meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link >>>> below. >>>> >>>> >>>> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2018 >>>> >>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its >>>> trip & they accepted his proposal. // >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Yohann Thomas >>>> Secretary >>>> Wikimedia India >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri 3 Aug, 2018, 18:33 Bodhisattwa Mandal, < >>>> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Yohann, >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for your mail. >>>>> >>>>> If you check the link of chairperson's meeting, you can see, that many >>>>> participants were not president of any affiliates, they attended the >>>>> meeting on behalf of the president. For example, Nahid Sultan attended the >>>>> meeting on behalf of Wikipedia Bangladesh (WMBD) as the General Secretary >>>>> of WMBD. It is not mandatory to join the meeting as a President of any >>>>> affiliates, usually, if one representative of an affiliate is present in >>>>> that conference, he can represent the affiliate. >>>>> >>>>> In Wikimania 2018, 2 EC members, Viswa Prabha and Krishna Chaitanya >>>>> Velaga, were present and one of them could have attended the meeting on >>>>> behalf of WMIN. Can you please explain, why WMIN decided to spend a huge >>>>> amount of donation money to send WMIN president to attend a meeting, where >>>>> his presence is not at all mandatory. Does WMIN consider these two members >>>>> unfit to attend such meeting? >>>>> >>>>> Waiting for your reply, >>>>> Bodhisattwa >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3 Aug 2018 6:05 pm, "Yohann Thomas" <yohan...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear Bodhi & other community members >>>>> >>>>> First of all, I would apologise for the delay in reply. Wikimedia >>>>> India is run by 7 board members(as you are already aware) & any discussion >>>>> on any topic, requires inputs from all of them.. Since all are unpaid >>>>> volunteers & have their own professional lives apart from Wikimedia India, >>>>> there was a delay in drafting a reply. >>>>> >>>>> As it is a well known fact, Wikimedia India is a volunteer run >>>>> organisation. There are board members, who discharge their duties towards >>>>> the chapter, as well as serve their regional communities (as well as user >>>>> groups) in their volunteer roles. >>>>> >>>>> Another well known fact is that, Wikimedia India still isn't >>>>> financially independent & is still dependent on external funding which is >>>>> fraught with regulatory hurdles, including obstacles related to FCRA. >>>>> >>>>> Having said that, many community members juggle their different roles >>>>> in community, affiliates, committees & in personal & professional roles to >>>>> attend different conferences run by the Wikimedia & its volunteers around >>>>> the world. >>>>> In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier attended >>>>> the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then >>>>> subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's >>>>> meeting >>>>> at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2018 >>>>> >>>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund >>>>> its trip & they accepted his proposal. >>>>> >>>>> Going a little off topic & concluding my email, I would really want to >>>>> appreciate & acknowledge the work done by Abhinav on & offline in relation >>>>> to the chapter. Eventhough Abhinav, prematurely left the chapter before >>>>> his >>>>> term expired, he still continues to support the chapter on different >>>>> issues, inspite of us still battling with all our regulatory hurdles. I >>>>> wish there were more such vocal well wishers, when the chapter is going >>>>> through a difficult time. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Yohann Thomas >>>>> Secretary >>>>> Wikimedia India >>>>> >>>>> ---- >>>>> On Fri 27 Jul, 2018, 12:32 Bodhisattwa Mandal, < >>>>> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018 in Cape >>>>>> Town without being selected for any type of scholarship. My question is >>>>>> why >>>>>> was he sent to the conference depriving other community members from >>>>>> India >>>>>> who were in the waiting list. >>>>>> >>>>>> He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few minutes. The >>>>>> meeting doesn't require president of the organization's presence, and >>>>>> already there were 2 EC member of WMIN present, who could have attended >>>>>> the >>>>>> meeting. >>>>>> >>>>>> To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation money. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Bodhisattwa >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >
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