DISCLAIMER: My following email is being sent as a volunteer and community
member & not as a board member of Wikimedia India.

Dear Manavpreet & other community members

I will try my best to answer this question using comparative analysis, why
this is happening & will be very informative for you & others.. Who have
this query..  & i obviously would want other community members to chip in,
in case u miss something out.

*CIS-A2K*

*Employees : *7 (full time & part time)
[I would also like to mention that for administrative work of any
organization like Financial audit, bookkeeping & meeting statutory
obligations, these 7 team members are not involved & to perform those
duties & the team of finance & administration team CIS is involved.So, we
can say total. Of
7+4=11 employees]
(Reference : https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/CIS-A2K/Team
https://cis-india.org/about/people/our-team)

*Funds received from **from WMF for the year 2017-18* : 180,000 ISD
(1,20,00,000 INR)
(Reference :
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/FDC_recommendations/2016-2017_round_2
)

Note:CIS receives funds from many other donors, but we are talking here
specifically of CIS-A2K team, whose annual plan is funded by the APG

*Wikimedia India* (WMIN)
*Employees : 0*

Board members:7
 (All Board members are unpaid volunteers who have their own professional
lives apart from running the chapter)
[I would also like to mention that all these board members are also
involved in administrative work of the organization like Financial audit,
bookkeeping & meeting statutory obligations & WMIN has no special staff for
this]

(Reference : http://wiki.wikimedia.in/Executive_Committee_Members)

*Funds received from WMF for the year 2017-18 :* 0 INR
(I must mention that Board members have applied for Rapid grants from WMF
to organise workshops & events)

Now, why hasn't Wikimedia India not received funds from WMF & the problems
pertaining to that has already been discussed in previous mails & community
members, who are curious, can look up the India mailing list archives, but
inspite of all adversities, Wikimedia India has a very active board who are
managing with whatever little resources the chapter has, using their time &
sometimes even their own money to organise events.

Manav, I somewhat agree with your point that the chapter is not taking as
many initiatives as much as CIS-A2K, to take the movement ahead, & yes to
some point, there is a big disconnect between the community & the chapter.
But, I see an opportunity here for you & many others who see this problem,
and can be very vital to bridge this disconnect & be part of Wikimedia
India on an active basis.

Now Im sure, you must be thinking , that you are a part of Punjabi User
group, that I'm doing well in my user group, why would i want be part of
the chapter.... Well i would say that you can be part of a national
identity.. Fix the system & take the chapter ahead, as a binding force
between the user groups of India.

I therefore request you & all others to be part of Wikimedia India on an
active basis. Personally, I feel that the Chapter, in entity, truly
represents what it means to be a Wikimedian & it is like every Wikimedian
around the world, who put in its time & resources to spread the sum of
knowledge.

Regards,
Yohann

------

On Fri 3 Aug, 2018, 16:54 Dr. Manavpreet Kaur, <dr.manavpreetk...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Asaf, Wikimedia India community members and CIS A2K Team,
>
> I am sorry for intervening in this whole discussion but I feel the
> discussion is deviating from the primary concern as we have received
> another mail where a number of concerns have been raised in response to the
> primary issue raised by Bodhi. My subscription was faulty and thanks to
> Sailesh who fixed it and I got a digest of emails. From what I've learned
> through the emails, Wikimedia India representatives are usually sent to
> attend the annual wiki gatherings like Wikimedia Conference and this time
> it was Wikimania. I am sorry to state that we (community) have never been
> approached by anyone from the Chapter to discuss issues, events, Training
> or to offer some assistance.  We have only one point of contact for all our
> issues and plans and that is CIS A2K Team. When Wikimedia India Chapter is
> not taking initiatives to bring the communities together or to take the
> movement ahead, then what is the purpose of their representatives attending
> these events, what do they have to impart to other wikimedians there?  and
> how are they using the learnings in progressing the movement?
> Can someone please clearly address these questions and then we can discuss
> the other issues raised in the different thread.
>
> Regards,
> Manavpreet Kaur
>
> On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 3:42 PM, Amritasya Putra <
> iamamritasyapu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Why doesn’t my email reach this list? I have been a member for, like
>> three years.
>>
>> On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 10:00 AM, Asaf Bartov <abar...@wikimedia.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Certainly, we can wait. But please understand I did not assert WMIN (or
>>> anyone) needs to apologize. Please reread and you'll find I posed it in a
>>> conditional, as *one* possible outcome of resolving Bodhisattwa's concern.
>>> I also described another possible scenario.
>>>
>>>     A.
>>>
>>> On Aug 3, 2018 06:21, "Abhinav srivastava" <abhinav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Asaf,
>>>
>>> In consent with my last mail on the thread, please be assured, no
>>> discussion whatsoever will take place until WMIN replies to the concerns,
>>> the community takes its time to question, inspect and interrogate the
>>> matter. Yes, all other issues will be raised on a separate thread and in
>>> good spirit only after this matter is resolved. As Subhashish pointed out,
>>> the issue is not about one person or an institution but bettering the
>>> process. That is essentially the reason they had been brought up.
>>>
>>> Asaf, It is always nice to hear from you. You have always followed the
>>> Indian community closely and helped it in whatever way. We all appreciate
>>> that.  I would look forward to hearing about the better methodological
>>> processes of debates and discussions on resolving community matter. This
>>> would also help us in the future course. The Indian community is
>>> progressing in resolving its disputes in a peaceful and coherent manner and
>>> we wish to learn more of this.
>>>
>>> In continuity with my second paragraph, it would be great if you guide
>>> us on this. This would make the community inclusive and self-sustaining. I
>>> am not very happy that when the matter is sub-judice in the people's court,
>>> you holding WMF office, is talking about on ways WMIN can apologize. To
>>> re-iterate, provide us with methodological solutions and leave the
>>> community to decide.
>>>
>>> Also, I am not sure since you holding WMF office should advise about
>>> distractions.concerning the second point clearly deals with conflicts in
>>> Wikimedia Foundation policy. Of course, the platform could be a reason and
>>> for that, we will make sure we do not jump across topics. In fact, when we
>>> move ahead on those issues (only after resolving the principal problem) I
>>> would encourage you to be a participant (representing WMF). There are few
>>> essentially questions concerning few community members regarding WMF
>>> policies which I may share with you personally, whatever you find
>>> appropriate can be further asked on the community mailing list.
>>>
>>> At last, I have spoken to different EC members. Two EC members have also
>>> written to me stating that they will reply about WMIN stand. They have
>>> assured me that they will reply as soon as possible. As a past EC member, I
>>> would like to tell, finalizing a WMIN stand takes some time since EC
>>> members need to discuss, deliberate and then provide to their consent. As
>>> you all are aware unlike CIS-A2K or WMF, Wikimedia India is a voluntary
>>> organization, EC has his/her own personal life (own office work etc), hence
>>> at times, it takes some time. However, a reply will follow-up very shortly.
>>>
>>> To sum up, no more discussions please, let's stick on the principal
>>> query, please.
>>>
>>> Abhinav
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 2:33 AM Asaf Bartov <abar...@wikimedia.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> As an outside observer, may I encourage everyone to try to keep this
>>>> one thread about its one, original topic?  Abhinav, I found your responses
>>>> defensive and distracting -- listing other issues and other groups about
>>>> which concerns can be raised is a very poor response to *this* concern
>>>> raised on this thread.  By all means, raise those concerns if you want to
>>>> pursue them (rather than merely use them as distraction on this thread),
>>>> *in a separate thread*.
>>>>
>>>> I encourage the WMIN EC, which is the body accountable to its
>>>> membership and to the broader communities in India, to address
>>>> Bodhisattwa's concern directly and politely, as befits an organization
>>>> aiming to be representative of the entire movement in India.  *Please*
>>>> don't respond with bluster, nor with [[whataboutism]].  If there was some
>>>> poor governance or inappropriate decision-making involved here, just own up
>>>> to it, apologize[1], and commit to doing better.  Everybody would
>>>> appreciate you for doing the right thing.
>>>>
>>>> If the appearance Bodhisattwa's concern responds to is *incorrect*, by
>>>> all means, calmly respond with the facts as they are and demonstrate to the
>>>> community that there is nothing to be concerned about.  Also reflect on how
>>>> that appearance was created despite everything being okay, and what can,
>>>> and should, be done to prevent such appearances in the future. Thinking
>>>> about this, and sharing your conclusions, would also, I dare say, be
>>>> welcomed by the community on this mailing list.
>>>>
>>>> I look forward to this matter resolving peacefully one way or another,
>>>> but please, let us stick to the substance of *this* thread on this thread,
>>>> and let us be fair and honest and avoid manipulative arguments and
>>>> insinuations.
>>>>
>>>> Warmly,
>>>>
>>>>     Asaf
>>>>
>>>> [1] may I humble offer an essay I once wrote on the power of apologies
>>>> for our movement? it is here:
>>>>
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/So_you%27ve_made_a_mistake_and_it%27s_public...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 3:01 PM Abhinav srivastava <abhinav...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Bodhisattwa,
>>>>>
>>>>> The first line of the mail which at 12:02 by Indian Standard Time, you
>>>>> stated, "I understand you are felling bad with my tone....I am sorry" .
>>>>>
>>>>> Apologies for getting this statement wrong, If I have.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would say, let us first address the point 1 which concerns response
>>>>> from WMIN. Other things can be put on *hold* and discussed,
>>>>> subsequently. I hope you would be in consent with this.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have received your mail concerning your Wikimania trip and
>>>>> allegations. I would like to re-iterate, neither then nor today, Wikimedia
>>>>> India pays any attention to those allegations. To my understanding (since 
>>>>> I
>>>>> am not EC) Wikimedia India continues to have full faith in you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rest assured, please be cautious, you are sending a little too many
>>>>> emails. I understand at times such issues happen but try and address them
>>>>> together. This would otherwise lead to spamming.
>>>>>
>>>>> Abhinav
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 5:15 PM Bodhisattwa Mandal <
>>>>> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Abhinav,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1.       Now that Bodhisattwa has acknowledged on his inappropriate
>>>>>>> tone and it can be believed he would be a caution for future onwards and
>>>>>>> since the issue is in public domain, I would urge Wikimedia India to
>>>>>>> respond on this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry missed this part,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where have I acknowledged that my tone was inappropriate? I only said
>>>>>> that, if you feel that the tone was not approprate, then I am sorry. To 
>>>>>> me,
>>>>>> my tone and my question are absolutely ok. Along with many others, I have
>>>>>> noticed a discrepancy and asked about the reason it in open mailing list,
>>>>>> so that everything remains transparent. I had to name the person 
>>>>>> involved,
>>>>>> otherwise the question seemed to be vague and meaningless. Everything I
>>>>>> said in my first e-mail was hard fact, almost everyone from India
>>>>>> participating in the conference knew about it and had the same question 
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> mind. If my (and others) question is invalid, then why there is no 
>>>>>> response
>>>>>> from WMIN, refuting everything after 6 days?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, instead of diverting the topic, if we stick to and discuss the
>>>>>> topic in which the thread was initiated, that would be great.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Bodhisattwa
>>>>>>
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