Hi, In spite of so many mails, if he(Rahul) is not responding, It is obvious that he is not on this mailing list.
I found Bodhisattwa's initial query was in the right spirit but later on tones got changed on the thread and it has almost become scrutiny/interrogation !! I completely understand/respect/agree that we are all volunteers and we do have concerns about the activities happening around. But in this case, things are probably not taken "In good faith" which is a base of a Wikipedian. Any volunteer is always free to apply/ask for scholarship for any reason towards the cause of Wikipedia and no one can deny that freedom. In this case, it happens to be a office bearer of the organisation. (I am not taking any names here and making it generic) If a volunteer feels that the reason for asking for scholarship is valid, he/she should ask for it. It is the duty of the person/organisation sanctioning such scholarships/funding to judge if the justification for the same is valid or not. If the justification is not right, sponsorship can be easily rejected. Nothing wrong in it. In this case, CIS-A2K has already replied to the query. Somehow, people are still asking the sponsored volunteer for justification and not the sponsoring authorities. It should be the other way round as the sponsors have the authority to accept or reject any proposal. I believe, in the past WMF has also spend money on similar sponsorships without even informing the community. Lot of money has been spent in various projects without much visibility and actual numbers in achieving the target. But then very few people are raising alerts about it. So, if at all people want to raise their concern, find the right target to ask questions/get answers and not just another volunteer !! Hope people will take up things in the right spirit. Disclaimer: I have not met/talked to anyone from WMIN/WMF after this thread has started. Just had a 1-2 minute casual discussion with Tito about the mail thread itself. Regards -Sudhanwa On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:15 AM Karthik Nadar <karthik...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dear WMIN EC/Rahul, > > I think the community is still waiting for an answer. > > My further points: > > 1. I appreciate Abhinav for defending the Chapter. Having been in the > seat, I would personally incline to defend too, however it really has to > make sense. > > 2. CIS has done it's role of helping WMIN as always. Perhaps request of > support upto this scale should be available to public even before it is > accepted. I think CIS should also have analysed that there were two members > from WMIN EC were attending Wikimania. > > Would not like to deviate more. In complete sync with Asaf. WMIN is > answerable to the community and to its members. No doubt here and it's been > just too long, way too long. > > Dear WMIN, the only way to gain community confidence is to engage with > them. Really surprised with activities like Wiki Loves Monuments which was > always a Chapter supported activity is not supported by Chapter this year > or correct me if I'm wrong. > > > > Regards, > Karthik Nadar > Ignore types, sent using my OnePlus > > On Fri 24 Aug, 2018, 1:22 AM Asaf Bartov, <abar...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > >> Dear Rahul, >> >> It's been 10 days since I've explicitly invited you to respond yourself >> and to take responsibility for this -- whether a mistake or a >> misunderstanding. It would be good if you could make time to do so. If >> you are unable to put in the time, please at least drop a line >> acknowledging you intend to, and suggest a date by which you'd be able to >> respond. >> >> It seems to me people have been trying to assume good faith despite >> concerns about the way this was handled, but this assumption of good faith >> should not be abused indefinitely. WMIN's EC and its president should be >> accountable to the membership and the broader communities it exists to >> support. You agreed with this statement when I made it in our meeting in >> Mumbai last year. Do please show you meant it. >> >> Thank you, >> >> A. >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:04 PM Asaf Bartov <abar...@wikimedia.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Perhaps also helpful would be to hear some response from Mr. Deshmukh >>> himself. >>> >>> Rahul, I think the concerns raised here at least merit your attention, >>> and it's been two weeks. I encourage you to show up and discuss the >>> concerns -- ideally, with a forthright description of what did and didn't >>> happen around your travel to Wikimania, and with a forward-looking >>> perspective of what might change to prevent such concerns in the future. >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> A. >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 7:06 AM, Bodhisattwa Mandal < >>> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Yohann, >>>> >>>> As I and Satdeep requested, it would be great if you share the >>>> invitation letter with all of us, so that we can know who invited WMIN >>>> president to attend the meeting. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Bodhisattwa >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, 8 Aug 2018, 14:58 Bodhisattwa Mandal, < >>>> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Yohann, >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the detailed reply. Much appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> So, to summarize your mail, WMIN president got written invitation to >>>>> speak in the informal meeting of chairpersons during Wikimania and WMIN >>>>> officially requested CIS-A2K to fund him to attend the meeting without >>>>> depriving any Wikimedian in waiting list for scholarship and CIS-A2K >>>>> funded >>>>> him to attend the entire Wikimania. Right? So, according to WMIN, this was >>>>> a valid request from WMIN to CIS-A2K, I presume, as you are defending >>>>> about >>>>> what WMIN did. >>>>> >>>>> Assuming good faith, I am believing all your words. Still, I don't >>>>> understand, why only 1 volunteer in the waiting list attended the >>>>> conference and next 2 in the queue were not funded. I am not talking about >>>>> Jayanta Nath and Aliva Sahoo, they both declined, I am talking about the >>>>> next 2 people in the queue. >>>>> >>>>> Also, can you please share the letter of invitation, so that we know, >>>>> who sent the letter and everything becomes transparent. >>>>> >>>>> By the way, I never said, chairpersons meeting was any random meeting, >>>>> I said it was informal meeting, like stewards meeting, asian meeting etc. >>>>> Informal means which is not related to Wikimania official program, there >>>>> is >>>>> a difference between random and informal. >>>>> >>>>> Echoing Manavpreet's valid query, can a Wikimedia volunteer with no >>>>> attachment to the chapter get similar special treatment of getting full >>>>> funds to attend Wikimania even if he/she doesn't get a Wikimania >>>>> scholarship but his/her presentation is selected and/or he/she gets >>>>> official invitation to speak in an informal meeting during Wikimania. Now, >>>>> from your answer, I hope there is no doubt about that volunteers will >>>>> receive such special treatment, because after all, the chapter does not >>>>> distinguish between board members and the volunteer community and we have >>>>> a >>>>> prior example of WMIN president to cite. That is a great news for the >>>>> volunteer community as it opens up new opportunity for the communities to >>>>> participate in the conference. Alas! this we didn't knew earlier, we could >>>>> have sent more Wikimedians this year, but it's ok, the community will be >>>>> informed for next year and I hope, more such requests will be sent to WMIN >>>>> and CIS-A2K from volunteers in future. Of course, we will keep everything >>>>> open and transparent, unlike this time. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Bodhisattwa >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, 8 Aug 2018, 12:42 Yohann Thomas, <yohan...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Bodhi >>>>>> >>>>>> I still feel, you haven't read my email word to word. I would request >>>>>> you to go by the 24 hr email rule (if not more).. which I personally do >>>>>> many times. >>>>>> >>>>>> Pardon my grammar & also my line to line reply, as I'm relying on my >>>>>> phone.. Since I'm traveling.. >>>>>> >>>>>> I will again try to explain point wise (where ever possible) & try my >>>>>> best to clear all doubts. >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) Mr Rahul Deshmukh, did not visit Wikimania, on scholarship, or to >>>>>> simply attend a random meeting. He was invited to be one of the speakers. >>>>>> You can find this on the agenda of it, during Wikimania.. followed by >>>>>> notes >>>>>> which carry a description. The ‘Conflict Resolution’ theme on which he >>>>>> was >>>>>> a speaker. This is generally a very long topic, on which Wikimedia >>>>>> Affiliates intends to discuss and deliberate over a period of time. This >>>>>> theme would be subsequently carried forward in upcoming Chairpersons >>>>>> Meetup >>>>>> as well, as mentioned on the Meta. >>>>>> >>>>>> If your memory serves you right.. During the Wiki Conference India >>>>>> 2016, where you were also one of the organizers (& the both of us >>>>>> deliberated on various topics quite extensively) , several community >>>>>> members who had not applied for the scholarship but had later approached >>>>>> CIS-A2K for the same were awarded appropriately. >>>>>> >>>>>> CIS-A2K had later informed the community about this decision. >>>>>> >>>>>> In good faith, we assumed that, CIS-A2K did not inform the community >>>>>> without having any specific interest in the exercise. Wikimedia India >>>>>> would >>>>>> also like to place on record, that it could have initiated the process of >>>>>> informing on its own. Wikimedia India would like to put on record, in >>>>>> times >>>>>> to come not only it would inform the community but also engage with its >>>>>> community members on decision making for such exercises. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2) Mr Rahul deshmukh had received an on record written invitation >>>>>> to attend the meeting and be a speaker on ‘Conflict Resolution’. The >>>>>> above >>>>>> said invitation was shown to CIS-A2K, when requesting them for travel >>>>>> assistance. >>>>>> >>>>>> *I have not stated anywhere that he received an invitation during the >>>>>> Chairpersons meeting at WMCON18*. He had attended Wikimedia >>>>>> Conference 2018 & in it had participated in the movement strategy >>>>>> discussion. It was during the movement strategy discussion that he >>>>>> received >>>>>> the invitation. >>>>>> >>>>>> 3) The chapter has full faith and belief in all its board members >>>>>> in both, individual and collective levels. This invitation was to the >>>>>> particular individual based on his expertise in the chapter and in >>>>>> the movement. Chapter has never considered any of its board members unfit >>>>>> to represent it. Personally, I feel Bodhi, it is very unfair on your >>>>>> part, >>>>>> to even make such allegation that the chapter would even, consider such >>>>>> a scenario. A well wisher of the chapter would never make such comments. >>>>>> >>>>>> 4) The Chapter is not of an opinion that the community members >>>>>> should be deprived of scholarship. Wikimedia India would like to put >>>>>> emphasis that during its grant tenure, Wikimedia India used to provide >>>>>> two >>>>>> sponsorship to its community members & we value the joy, which a >>>>>> volunteer >>>>>> gets, when he is informed that, he is going to Wikimania. >>>>>> >>>>>> However, in this scenario , none was deprived on anything. As I have >>>>>> repeatedly said, Mr Rahul Deshmukh was invited to attend and give a talk >>>>>> on >>>>>> conflict resolution. Since it was about the affiliates & partnerships >>>>>> amongst them, the chapter approached another affiliate CIS-A2K and CCing >>>>>> the chapter board members >>>>>> >>>>>> 5) The Chapter does not make any distinction between its board >>>>>> members and its community members. Unlike CIS-A2K, Wikimedia India board >>>>>> members are unpaid volunteers, similar to its community members, who give >>>>>> their time & effort towards the community. >>>>>> >>>>>> To Sum the entire email, the chapter has made a valuable learning, of >>>>>> engaging the community in a more effective way in the future. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Yohann Thomas >>>>>> Secretary >>>>>> Wikimedia India >>>>>> >>>>>> P.S. - Neither your previous email, or any other email can affect our >>>>>> friendship, Bodhi .Our passion & commitment towards the movement, is what >>>>>> binds us :) >>>>>> >>>>>> -------- >>>>>> On Sun 5 Aug, 2018, 12:27 Bodhisattwa Mandal, < >>>>>> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Yohann, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have read your previous e-mail very carefully, without missing a >>>>>>> single word. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My question still stands. Many apologies, if I have not been able to >>>>>>> make it clear in my previous mails, so I am adding some more >>>>>>> perspective. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1) Chairpersons meeting in Wikimania is informal. It's not related >>>>>>> to the main program of Wikimania. For example, like many other informal >>>>>>> meetups, there happens to be a steward meetup every year in Wikimania. >>>>>>> Now, >>>>>>> if one steward, who have not received scholarship, is invited in the >>>>>>> meetup, then he/she will have to spend his own money to attend the >>>>>>> meeting. >>>>>>> Same principle lies here, participation for chairpersons meetup is not >>>>>>> eligibility criteria to gain a scholarship as it is an informal meetup. >>>>>>> Can >>>>>>> you please provide some documentation, where it is written that >>>>>>> scholarship >>>>>>> would be provided to attend informal meetups? Because if that is true, >>>>>>> everyone will find someone to invite themselves to attend informal >>>>>>> meetups >>>>>>> in Wikimania and ask for scholarship from WMIN from next year. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2) I have checked and rechecked the minute[1] and event page[2] of >>>>>>> chairpersons meeting of Wikimedia Conference, Berlin. Nowhere there is a >>>>>>> proof that he has attended that meeting. So, I have doubt that he was >>>>>>> invited at all because there is no point to invite someone who didn't >>>>>>> attend the meeting previously even he was present there. Can you >>>>>>> provide the documentation of his invitation? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] >>>>>>> https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/chairpersons_meeting_April_20%2C_2018 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [2] >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_April_20_2018 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 3) As I said earlier, even if I believe that he was invited, already >>>>>>> there were 2 EC members (Viswa and Krishna) present in Wikimania who >>>>>>> went >>>>>>> there with full scholarship. You can check that president's >>>>>>> participation >>>>>>> is not at all mandatory. Why WMIN didn't told them to attend the >>>>>>> informal meeting of chairpersons on behalf of the Chapter? Are they >>>>>>> considered unfit or incapable to attend the meeting, if yes, why so? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 4) Lastly, Wikimania and Wikimedia Conference are not the same. >>>>>>> Whereas Wikimedia Conference is for affiliates, Wikimania is for >>>>>>> volunteers. So, sending an affiliate representative with the donation >>>>>>> money, depriving a Wikimedia volunteer who was in the waiting list and >>>>>>> supposed to attend the conference, is utter misuse of power and money. >>>>>>> Can >>>>>>> you please explain that? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 5) Lastly, did WMIN inform the volunteer who was supposed to attend >>>>>>> the conference, that Rahul Desmukh has been sent instead of him, because >>>>>>> Rahul is the president of WMIN whereas he is just a volunteer? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am sure, you will read my e-mail carefully as I did to yours. >>>>>>> Also, I hope this mail won't affect the friendship between us and you >>>>>>> won't >>>>>>> take it personally. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Waiting for your detailed reply, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bodhisattwa >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 11:08 Yohann Thomas, <yohan...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (sorry for the delay, just following the 24hrs email rule) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Bodhi >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would request you to please read my email completely. If you >>>>>>>> want, I can give you an excerpt of my email, which should answer your >>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> //In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier >>>>>>>> attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & >>>>>>>> then subsequently was *invited* to Wikimania, especially the >>>>>>>> Chairperson's meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the >>>>>>>> link >>>>>>>> below. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2018 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund >>>>>>>> its trip & they accepted his proposal. // >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Yohann Thomas >>>>>>>> Secretary >>>>>>>> Wikimedia India >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri 3 Aug, 2018, 18:33 Bodhisattwa Mandal, < >>>>>>>> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Yohann, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for your mail. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you check the link of chairperson's meeting, you can see, that >>>>>>>>> many participants were not president of any affiliates, they attended >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> meeting on behalf of the president. For example, Nahid Sultan >>>>>>>>> attended the >>>>>>>>> meeting on behalf of Wikipedia Bangladesh (WMBD) as the General >>>>>>>>> Secretary >>>>>>>>> of WMBD. It is not mandatory to join the meeting as a President of any >>>>>>>>> affiliates, usually, if one representative of an affiliate is present >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> that conference, he can represent the affiliate. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In Wikimania 2018, 2 EC members, Viswa Prabha and Krishna >>>>>>>>> Chaitanya Velaga, were present and one of them could have attended the >>>>>>>>> meeting on behalf of WMIN. Can you please explain, why WMIN decided to >>>>>>>>> spend a huge amount of donation money to send WMIN president to >>>>>>>>> attend a >>>>>>>>> meeting, where his presence is not at all mandatory. Does WMIN >>>>>>>>> consider >>>>>>>>> these two members unfit to attend such meeting? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Waiting for your reply, >>>>>>>>> Bodhisattwa >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3 Aug 2018 6:05 pm, "Yohann Thomas" <yohan...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Bodhi & other community members >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> First of all, I would apologise for the delay in reply. Wikimedia >>>>>>>>> India is run by 7 board members(as you are already aware) & any >>>>>>>>> discussion >>>>>>>>> on any topic, requires inputs from all of them.. Since all are unpaid >>>>>>>>> volunteers & have their own professional lives apart from Wikimedia >>>>>>>>> India, >>>>>>>>> there was a delay in drafting a reply. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As it is a well known fact, Wikimedia India is a volunteer run >>>>>>>>> organisation. There are board members, who discharge their duties >>>>>>>>> towards >>>>>>>>> the chapter, as well as serve their regional communities (as well as >>>>>>>>> user >>>>>>>>> groups) in their volunteer roles. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Another well known fact is that, Wikimedia India still isn't >>>>>>>>> financially independent & is still dependent on external funding >>>>>>>>> which is >>>>>>>>> fraught with regulatory hurdles, including obstacles related to FCRA. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Having said that, many community members juggle their different >>>>>>>>> roles in community, affiliates, committees & in personal & >>>>>>>>> professional >>>>>>>>> roles to attend different conferences run by the Wikimedia & its >>>>>>>>> volunteers >>>>>>>>> around the world. >>>>>>>>> In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier >>>>>>>>> attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India >>>>>>>>> & >>>>>>>>> then subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the >>>>>>>>> Chairperson's >>>>>>>>> meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2018 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to >>>>>>>>> fund its trip & they accepted his proposal. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Going a little off topic & concluding my email, I would really >>>>>>>>> want to appreciate & acknowledge the work done by Abhinav on & >>>>>>>>> offline in >>>>>>>>> relation to the chapter. Eventhough Abhinav, prematurely left the >>>>>>>>> chapter >>>>>>>>> before his term expired, he still continues to support the chapter on >>>>>>>>> different issues, inspite of us still battling with all our regulatory >>>>>>>>> hurdles. I wish there were more such vocal well wishers, when the >>>>>>>>> chapter >>>>>>>>> is going through a difficult time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Yohann Thomas >>>>>>>>> Secretary >>>>>>>>> Wikimedia India >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>> On Fri 27 Jul, 2018, 12:32 Bodhisattwa Mandal, < >>>>>>>>> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018 in >>>>>>>>>> Cape Town without being selected for any type of scholarship. My >>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>> is why was he sent to the conference depriving other community >>>>>>>>>> members from >>>>>>>>>> India who were in the waiting list. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few minutes. >>>>>>>>>> The meeting doesn't require president of the organization's >>>>>>>>>> presence, and >>>>>>>>>> already there were 2 EC member of WMIN present, who could have >>>>>>>>>> attended the >>>>>>>>>> meeting. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation money. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Bodhisattwa >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Asaf Bartov >>> Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org> >>> >>> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share >>> in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! >>> https://donate.wikimedia.org >>> >> >> >> -- >> Asaf Bartov >> Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org> >> >> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the >> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! >> https://donate.wikimedia.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > -- ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~! web: www.sudhanwa.com blog: www.sudhanwa.in Twitter: sudhanwa Check on FB, Linkedin for more.
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