Thanks Lodewijk I think thats a very good summary. Deciding what WLM is and what it isnt may shorten the debates. I'm not suprised that categorisation volunteers are thin on the ground. If it was fun then we wouldnt have the issue.
Useful to leave till London I think regards Roger PS Finding new voluteers/activists is a good target.( know the Russian WLM got some articles written as their QRpedia exhibition got me doing translation for them and a few others. On 30 January 2012 17:21, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote: > Hi Roger, > > I think there are indeed a few things that characterize a 'Wiki Loves > Monuments' - amongst those is, that it is a photo competition about > monuments :) Hence, if categorizing would be the main activity, it would > make a lot more sense indeed to find a different name. It would have > nothing to do any more with 'flexible rules', but rather an entirely > different concept. Which doesn't make it a bad idea though. > > Wiki Loves Monuments is a great way to get quite good quality pictures of > monumental buildings. Even though you have many uncategorized images, there > are definitely going to be many locations still without a good quality > picture. At the same time, a big benefit is that you make a large group of > people (especially amateur photographers) aware that Wikipedia is editable, > which gives you an opportunity (not a garantuee) that they can be persuaded > to stick around. Additionally it is a nice opportunity to work together > with a different kind of partners, but I understand that you have no > scarcity there. > > As far as I know, Maarten is currently trying to run a lot of the > categorization automated, and that seems to be going well although it will > take quite a while before it is finished. > > But yes, you will have definitely to ask yourself the question whether you > want to run this competition at all. Most Wikipedians I heard so far on > this topic seem indeed to be mainly worried about categorization, and find > that of the most importance (please correct me when I'm wrong). Just don't > get the impression that this potential audience that is out there (heritage > enthusiasts, photographers) which you might be able to motivate for Wiki > Loves Monuments, will be similarly interested in a 'categorization > contest'. So far, I have met 1 non-Wikipedian interested in categorization. > Ever. And he was only interested because he once did a paper or something > on the topic :) > > So to put it simple: there is an opportunity to run a Wiki Loves Monuments > in the UK. I personally think it is a great thing to do, and am happy to > assist in any way possible to help you get it organized. But in the end, > the enthusiasm and effort have to come from UK volunteers. I am not a > categorization magician, so I can unfortunately not make that problem go > away for you - even though I have tried to pull some strings and get other > people take a look at it. > > Running a categorization contest/event for the Wikipedians (because other > people are unlikely to be interested) before the start of Wiki Loves > Monuments sounds like a great idea, because the two can potentially > reinforce each other. Imho mixing the two up would make things complicated, > and weaken both ideas. > > With kind regards, > Lodewijk > > No dia 30 de Janeiro de 2012 17:22, Roger Bamkin > <victuall...@gmail.com>escreveu: > > *UK Wikimedians are not entirely indifferent to proper subcategorisation >> of photos (outdoor or in) on a vaguely monumental theme* - lol >> >> Well that was a useful push at the linits of what is possible as I knew >> you thought that the rules were flexible. I'm feeling on this thread that >> we need to know why we are gathering more pics when we have so many. >> >> One appeal in WLM was to see the blip of new users on commons that WLM >> delivered. I only offer the categorisation project because that is where we >> have a large backlog. I know the category model is tricky but surely its a >> problem we cannot allow newbies to ignore? Otherwise our categorisation >> problems gets worse. >> >> We are saying that we should ask people to take pictures of things that >> we don't have pictures of ..... but we have no idea which things we don't >> have pictures of. >> >> What would you say were the main benefits of WLM. to the UK given that we >> do have thousands and thousands of photos that are uncategorised? >> >> On 30 January 2012 14:59, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Roger, >>> >>> I feel sorry for you that you have the feeling that you went out for >>> nothing. However, you did surely add to the wealth - having multiple photos >>> of something is also worth something. >>> >>> A categorization project sounds great, but should probably not be called >>> 'wiki loves monuments' to avoid confusion. It is also much less useful to >>> new users, the main target group of Wiki Loves Monuments. We shouldn't >>> bother them with Commons' horrible categorization structure - they should >>> just identify what is on their photo, and we can (automagically) take it >>> from there thanks to the (to be built) database. >>> >>> If you want to motivate people from our communities to categorize >>> pictures, that would be a nice project in its own right. Perhaps it would >>> be nice to do *before* wiki loves monuments - so that both get maximum >>> effect? >>> >>> Lodewijk >>> >>> No dia 30 de Janeiro de 2012 15:29, Roger Bamkin >>> <victuall...@gmail.com>escreveu: >>> >>>> *Anecdotal story*: My wife decided to take me outside for a trip and >>>> asked where I wanted to go. I'd recently seen a tool by Magnus Mankse >>>> called *Shoot me* which lists out all the wiki articles geo tagged >>>> near you that lacked pics. So I quickly went >>>> >>>> http://toolserver.org/~magnus/wikishootme/index.html >>>> >>>> and that listed out half a dozen useful places near me that lacked >>>> pics. We went out .... took the pics and when I went to load them I found >>>> out that all these pictures already existed ..... they were uncategorised, >>>> but there. I think I loaded some *new* pix but I'm not sure I added much to >>>> "the wealth". >>>> >>>> So if our objective is to "supply everything to everyone" (paraphrase >>>> our vision), then first we need a copy of everything. It could be that we >>>> already have a copy of nearly everything if we could just sort out what we >>>> had and what we lacked. However the chances of running a successful UK >>>> categorisation project is low..... or is it? >>>> >>>> Do you know I just typed the last sentence and realised that that is >>>> what we want. *We want a categorisation project*. What we know will >>>> appeal is a successful photography project. Hmmm >>>> * >>>> UK WIKI LOVES MONUMENTS* - wacky proposal >>>> >>>> Prize goes to the b*est five media files in a complete >>>> Wiki-Commons-Category* >>>> >>>> Entrants will ensure that they use a valid commons category for a >>>> village, road, type of monuments etc. They will populate that category with >>>> as many photos and videos and sounds as possible. They are invited to add >>>> their own pictures, viideo and sounds but also to collect as many freely >>>> sourced files they can find from other sources too. >>>> >>>> Judges will look at wikimedia commons pages, wikipedia, wikisource etc >>>> pages that use or could use these resources. They will choose the winning >>>> category and the five media files that best illustrate its reason for >>>> winning. This is a "beauty" competition that is is not just based on the >>>> quality of the media but also the quantity, meta data and completeness of >>>> the chosen category. >>>> >>>> So thats an idea for what might work Please feel free to ignore, delete >>>> or modify >>>> >>>> >>>> On 30 January 2012 11:46, Gordon Joly <gordon.j...@pobox.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I may have missed the point.. but.... doesn't this article need >>>>> expanding urgently? I feel these types of articles should be expanded >>>>> routinely (Grade I listed buildings). >>>>> >>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Harmondsworth_Barn<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmondsworth_Barn> >>>>> >>>>> In the news currently because English Heritage have just bought it. >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps it should look more like this... >>>>> >>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**House_Mill<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Mill> >>>>> >>>>> And, yes, I will edit the article - REAL SOON NOW. >>>>> >>>>> Gordo >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Gordon Joly >>>>> gordon.j...@pobox.com >>>>> http://www.joly.org.uk/ >>>>> Don't Leave Space To The Professionals! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> Wikimedia UK mailing list >>>>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org >>>>> http://mail.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l<http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l> >>>>> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Roger Bamkin >>>> Chair WMUK <http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board> >>>> 01332 702993 >>>> 0758 2020815 >>>> Google+:Victuallers >>>> Skype:Victuallers1 >>>> Flickr:Victuallers2 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia UK mailing list >>>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org >>>> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l >>>> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia UK mailing list >>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org >>> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l >>> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Roger Bamkin >> Chair WMUK <http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board> >> 01332 702993 >> 0758 2020815 >> Google+:Victuallers >> Skype:Victuallers1 >> Flickr:Victuallers2 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia UK mailing list >> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org >> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l >> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org > > -- Roger Bamkin Chair WMUK <http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board> 01332 702993 0758 2020815 Google+:Victuallers Skype:Victuallers1 Flickr:Victuallers2
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
