What happens when users choose the 2.4 enabled SSID even though they support 5ghz? They may select it based off signal strength indicators on their client, even though they will get a lower data rate.
I agree to turning off 2.4 on a network that you control all devices for; like enterprise solutions, but for 'public' solutions I don't find it advantageous. Tune your RF to coax clients to 5ghz and test some of the features vendors have. They developed them for a reason and usually work fine. I just don't like major decisions on my infrastructure being made based on a very small number of 'legacy' clients. -----Original Message----- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Turner, Ryan H Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 7:04 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID? Well, you can convince me otherwise, but I don't think that is true. As stated previously, we already see plenty of devices that are 5 gig capable connecting to 2.4. Regardless of how long they spend there, they are still on the 2.4 for some period. Running a 5 gig only SSID eliminates that. So you eliminate some of the guess work of troubleshooting a client, and then you know when they connected, they were always at 5. Seems like a win to me. And obviously there is no sharing of the radio. And also, let's face it. The other SSID isn't a junk SSID in the nature that it would resemble the exact same SSID that you run now. There is no additional overhead here, as we already run eduroam and a PSK network. Ryan Turner Senior Network Engineer, ITS The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill +1 919 274 7926 Mobile +1 919 445 0113 Office > On Apr 15, 2016, at 7:48 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) > <bosbo...@liberty.edu> wrote: > > That is not really a solution if the "junk" SSID uses the same radios as the > "premiere" SSID. The radio needs to beacon at the lower rates. > > Running separate "junk" APs really adds to the cost. > > > > Bruce Osborne > Wireless Engineer > IT Network Services - Wireless > > (434) 592-4229 > > LIBERTY UNIVERSITY > Training Champions for Christ since 1971 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Turner, Ryan H [mailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu] > Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 7:44 AM > Subject: Re: Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID? > > Well, as I pointed out from the very beginning, running a premiere SSID that > guarantees junk devices can't connect to better ensure some performance while > having a backup SSID for all the rest is a solution. It is no different > than running a 802.1x SSID. A lot of devices won't support that. But in our > case, they fall back to a PSK SSID. You still preserve connectivity, but > aren't connecting by the smallest common denominator. > > Ryan Turner > Senior Network Engineer, ITS > The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill > +1 919 274 7926 Mobile > +1 919 445 0113 Office > >> On Apr 14, 2016, at 7:39 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) >> <bosbo...@liberty.edu> wrote: >> >> What about 11g or 11n devices that require the lower data rates in order to >> connect? >> >> >> >> Bruce Osborne >> Wireless Engineer >> IT Network Services - Wireless >> >> (434) 592-4229 >> >> LIBERTY UNIVERSITY >> Training Champions for Christ since 1971 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Trinklein, Jason R [mailto:trinkle...@cofc.edu] >> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 9:32 AM >> Subject: Re: Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID? >> >> We presently do not permit 802.11a/b devices on our wireless network, but we >> do allow 802.11g. Luckily, there are only a few dozen 802.11g devices >> connected at any given time, the rest are 802.11n/ac. The performance hit >> for supporting g appears to be minimal in our environment. >> >> We’ve been facing issues with special requests on our campus for supporting >> bizarre end devices. The most recent request was to support a wifi doorbell, >> which uses PSK and 2.4GHz only. Worse, it was easily stolen and cracked, >> giving up in cleartext the key. >> >> Refusing to support these devices causes new problems, however. Some of >> these locations instead set up their own access points to serve these >> special devices, which causes channel interference with our official access >> points. To set up such devices is against policy, but it causes some angst >> against IT when we enforce it in these circumstances. How many exceptions do >> you make for special scenarios? How often do you prop up custom >> location-specific SSIDs to support unique requests? >> -- >> Jason Trinklein >> >> Wireless Engineering Manager >> College of Charleston >> 81 St. Philip Street | Office 311D | Charleston, SC 29403 >> trinkle...@cofc.edu | (843) 300–8009 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 4/13/16, 8:45 AM, "The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group >>> Listserv on behalf of Frank Sweetser" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >>> on behalf of f...@wpi.edu> wrote: >>> >>> We were lucky enough here to start off from the beginning with a >>> policy of wireless being strictly best effort. If it works, yay for >>> you! If it doesn't work, plug into a wired port and we'll get around >>> to fixing wireless if and when we can. Obviously we can't get away >>> with that kind of position these days, but it's been much easier to >>> start there than to have had the wireless network be priority one from the >>> start. >>> >>> Based off of that, we've been able to stick to a basic functional >>> support requirement, rather than being obligated to twist wireless >>> around to support critical devices that someone else decided should >>> depend on wireless. In our case, devices fall into one of three categories: >>> >>> - If your configuration is fully supported by CloudPath, we'll back >>> up that support, including opening vendor tickets on your behalf if >>> you find a real problem. >>> >>> - If you're outside of CloudPath support, but you still support our >>> encryption and authentication requirements (WPA2/EAP-TLS), we'll pr >>> work, plug into a wired port and we'll get around to fixing wireless >>> if and when we can. Obviously we can't get away with that kind of >>> position these days, but it's been much easier to start there than to >>> have had the wireless network be priority one from the start. >>> >>> Based off of that, we've been able to stick to a basic functional >>> support requirement, rather than being obligated to twist wireless >>> around to support critical devices that someone else decided should >>> depend on wireless. In our case, devices fall into one of three categories: >>> >>> - If your configuration is fully supported by CloudPath, we'll back >>> up that support, including opening vendor tickets on your behalf if >>> you find a real problem. >>> >>> - If you're outside of CloudPath support, but you still support our >>> encryption and authentication requirements (WPA2/EAP-TLS), we'll >>> provide you with an identity cert and some general directions, but >>> you're responsible for the actual configuration. >>> >>> - If your device only supports PSK, then sorry, you're out of luck! >>> This also happens to rule out all of the devices that we've seen >>> require 1Mbit data rates, like the Wii, which has made it much easier for >>> us to trim out those bottom rates. >>> >>> Obviously we've had to dump resources into wireless over the years to >>> keep pace with actual requirements and user expectations, but >>> starting from the convinience only stance has made it much easier for us to >>> manage expectations over time. >>> >>> Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu | For every problem, there is a solution >>> that >>> >>> Manager of Network Operations | is simple, elegant, and wrong. >>> Worcester Polytechnic Institute | - HL Menckenovide you with an >>> identity cert and some general directions, but you're responsible for >>> the actual configuration. >>> >>> - >>> >>> Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu | For every problem, there is a solution >>> that >>> >>> Manager of Network Operations | is simple, elegant, and wrong. >>> Worcester Polytechnic Institute | - HL Mencken >>> >>>> On Wed, 2016-04-13 at 12:23 +0000, Chris Adams (IT) wrote: >>>> I think this raises an interesting challenge that I've faced too: >>>> should we enact a minimum specification requirement (ex. no >>>> 802.11a/b) for wireless network access? >>>> >>>> For student PCs that our service desk supports, we have minimum >>>> requirements, IE Windows versions, AV vendors, etc. Outside of those >>>> requirements, they cannot support the machines. Should we do >>>> something similar for wireless? >>>> >>>> Is it fair to potentially reduce the network experience for others >>>> associated to access point to support devices that only utilize >>>> legacy wireless methods? >>>> >>>> I am certainly sympathetic to allow as much device freedom as >>>> possible - but at what cost to performance and user experience? >>>> >>>> I am interested if any of you may have already crossed this bridge. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Chris Adams, CISSP >>>> >>>> Director, Network & Telecom Services Division of Information >>>> Technology University of North Georgia >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv >>>> [mailto:WIRELE ss-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Osborne, >>>> Bruce W (Network >>>> Services) >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 8:18 AM >>>> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >>>> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID? >>>> >>>> We have some management with Visio TVs that requires 802.11b rates >>>> in order to associate. That presents a challenge too. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Bruce Osborne >>>> Wireless Engineer >>>> IT Network Services - Wireless >>>> >>>> (434) 592-4229 >>>> >>>> LIBERTY UNIVERSITY >>>> Training Champions for Christ since 1971 >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Gogan, James Patrick [mailto:go...@email.unc.edu] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 8:08 AM >>>> Subject: Re: Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID? >>>> >>>> I'm unfortunately seeing that we may actually start to experience an >>>> INCREASE in 2.4GHz-only devices ..... when we asked about this on >>>> campus recently, I received this reply ... and this is from a central IT >>>> person: >>>> >>>> " I wanted to point out that many brand new phones don't speak 5GHz >>>> such as the Motorola Moto G (3rd generation) which just began >>>> shipping late last summer. In fact, none of the generations of Moto >>>> G have a 5GHz radio. Motorola has reserved 5GHz wifi for the Moto X which >>>> is their >>>> premium spec phone. The Moto G is a pretty common phone - I know of >>>> several folks (in our department) that have such including myself >>>> and a coworker who just bought a brand new one Friday. Republic >>>> Wireless sells a ton of these. The Moto E, which is the base model, >>>> also doesn't speak 5GHz. Several folks in our building also have that >>>> phone." >>>> >>>> Don't know whether to blame Motorola or folks that go for the >>>> cheapest stuff possible. >>>> >>>> -- Jim Gogan / Univ of North Carolina at Chapel Hill >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv >>>> [mailto:WIRELE ss-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Earl >>>> Barfield >>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 4:07 PM >>>> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >>>> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID? >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 04/07/2016 09:24 AM, Hector J Rios wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is >>>>>> the percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions? >>>>>> For us is still 50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I >>>>>> still see new laptops that only come with 2.4GHz adapters. >>>> >>>> While it can be useful to track what percentage of connections use >>>> 5GHz radios, we've found that a better question to ask is "What >>>> percentage of 5GHz-capable clients are actually connecting at 5GHz". >>>> >>>> In our environment, it varies wildly by building: some as high as >>>> 95% of sessions and others, such as our outdoor spaces, down close to zero. >>>> >>>> We focus our resources on improving the 5GHz coverage in the >>>> buildings with the lower percentages. >>>> >>>> All this data is in the Airwave Management Platform database. It just >>>> takes a little gentle coaxing to get it out. >>>> >>>> In our high density spaces, we have many many APs on 5GHz with >>>> directional antennas, along with turning of lower data rates and >>>> raising RxSOP to limit the cell size. We turn off 2.4GHz >>>> radios on all but a few APs in the room, From the user side, this >>>> should look about like APs with multiple 5GHz radios. >>>> >>>> We're using Cisco AP3702Es right now but we're anxious to take a >>>> look at the upcoming AP3802Es that should allow us to use fewer APs >>>> to but the same number of 5GHz antennas serving a room. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Earl Barfield -- Academic & Research Tech / Information Technology >>>> Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 >>>> Internet: earl.barfi...@oit.gatech.edu e...@gatech.edu >>>> >>>> ********** >>>> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE >>>> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.educause.edu_groups_&d=CwIFaQ&c=7MSSWy9Bs2yocjNQzurxOQ&r=AuveJXIorHW4s-aGSHEbnQZt5LubWGCZik-5HxxaRqU&m=aT15Yz-lMtOrU2rxTLo7F6LlZRuyTkPWUMAHokr4IXc&s=Tw9w9P8HI6xCmHgUCr8EkE1kp6en3hm5Nhysgq9iIqc&e= >>>> . >>>> >>>> ********** >>>> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE >>>> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.educause.edu_groups_&d=CwIFaQ&c=7MSSWy9Bs2yocjNQzurxOQ&r=AuveJXIorHW4s-aGSHEbnQZt5LubWGCZik-5HxxaRqU&m=aT15Yz-lMtOrU2rxTLo7F6LlZRuyTkPWUMAHokr4IXc&s=Tw9w9P8HI6xCmHgUCr8EkE1kp6en3hm5Nhysgq9iIqc&e= >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> ********** >>>> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE >>>> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.educause.edu_groups_&d=CwIFaQ&c=7MSSWy9Bs2yocjNQzurxOQ&r=AuveJXIorHW4s-aGSHEbnQZt5LubWGCZik-5HxxaRqU&m=aT15Yz-lMtOrU2rxTLo7F6LlZRuyTkPWUMAHokr4IXc&s=Tw9w9P8HI6xCmHgUCr8EkE1kp6en3hm5Nhysgq9iIqc&e= >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> ********** >>>> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE >>>> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.educause.edu_groups_&d=CwIFaQ&c=7MSSWy9Bs2yocjNQzurxOQ&r=AuveJXIorHW4s-aGSHEbnQZt5LubWGCZik-5HxxaRqU&m=aT15Yz-lMtOrU2rxTLo7F6LlZRuyTkPWUMAHokr4IXc&s=Tw9w9P8HI6xCmHgUCr8EkE1kp6en3hm5Nhysgq9iIqc&e= >>>> . >>> >>> ********** >>> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent >>> Group discussion list can be found at >>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.educause.edu_groups_&d=CwIFaQ&c=7MSSWy9Bs2yocjNQzurxOQ&r=AuveJXIorHW4s-aGSHEbnQZt5LubWGCZik-5HxxaRqU&m=aT15Yz-lMtOrU2rxTLo7F6LlZRuyTkPWUMAHokr4IXc&s=Tw9w9P8HI6xCmHgUCr8EkE1kp6en3hm5Nhysgq9iIqc&e= >>> . >> >> ********** >> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent >> Group discussion list can be found at >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.educause.edu_groups_&d=BQIGaQ&c=6vgNTiRn9_pqCD9hKx9JgXN1VapJQ8JVoF8oWH1AgfQ&r=rYfqH_8oTvcXxRxUI3x3m3Y7Nwgir7tnuoGbdZsrUM4&m=4puebCSQ9JokRjmZRNYxPrUVlyYVk49BWCVumMddTiQ&s=pk0PFv-EkT6tYjx9yNvTZ5OwgVEcucRfkWv5Dqhoo4M&e= >> . >> >> >> ********** >> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent >> Group discussion list can be found at >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.educause.edu_groups_&d=BQIGaQ&c=6vgNTiRn9_pqCD9hKx9JgXN1VapJQ8JVoF8oWH1AgfQ&r=rYfqH_8oTvcXxRxUI3x3m3Y7Nwgir7tnuoGbdZsrUM4&m=4puebCSQ9JokRjmZRNYxPrUVlyYVk49BWCVumMddTiQ&s=pk0PFv-EkT6tYjx9yNvTZ5OwgVEcucRfkWv5Dqhoo4M&e= >> . > > ********** > Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent > Group discussion list can be found at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.educause.edu_groups_&d=BQIGaQ&c=6vgNTiRn9_pqCD9hKx9JgXN1VapJQ8JVoF8oWH1AgfQ&r=rYfqH_8oTvcXxRxUI3x3m3Y7Nwgir7tnuoGbdZsrUM4&m=4puebCSQ9JokRjmZRNYxPrUVlyYVk49BWCVumMddTiQ&s=pk0PFv-EkT6tYjx9yNvTZ5OwgVEcucRfkWv5Dqhoo4M&e= > . > > > ********** > Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent > Group discussion list can be found at > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.educause.edu_groups_&d=BQIGaQ&c=6vgNTiRn9_pqCD9hKx9JgXN1VapJQ8JVoF8oWH1AgfQ&r=rYfqH_8oTvcXxRxUI3x3m3Y7Nwgir7tnuoGbdZsrUM4&m=4puebCSQ9JokRjmZRNYxPrUVlyYVk49BWCVumMddTiQ&s=pk0PFv-EkT6tYjx9yNvTZ5OwgVEcucRfkWv5Dqhoo4M&e= > . > ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.educause.edu_groups_&d=BQIGaQ&c=6vgNTiRn9_pqCD9hKx9JgXN1VapJQ8JVoF8oWH1AgfQ&r=rYfqH_8oTvcXxRxUI3x3m3Y7Nwgir7tnuoGbdZsrUM4&m=4puebCSQ9JokRjmZRNYxPrUVlyYVk49BWCVumMddTiQ&s=pk0PFv-EkT6tYjx9yNvTZ5OwgVEcucRfkWv5Dqhoo4M&e= . ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
