It matters to your PEAP user that might lose his credentials while connecting 
to our network on our property even though he was told it was a "secure" 
connection.  I'm talking about preventing the attack to the degree possible by 
not providing a service that incorporates the vulnerable component in the first 
place.  

I'm simply saying that before we added eduroam to our collection of ESSID's - 
we did not have to worry about that specific issue because we controlled the 
whole service end-to-end.  We've been running eduroam for like 5-6 years but 
with that eduroam ESSID - there are additional ramifications.  Yes an EAP-TLS 
issue could arise but if/when it does I can change all of the service 
(including the EAP type used) for my own ESSID where my reach only extends so 
far with eduroam.

Also, 5-6 years ago I was not aware of a non-eduroam method to allow guests to 
quickly provision for EAP-TLS, but now I am.  It is easy to provision guests 
off the street with EAP-TLS connections today and I can reach a much larger 
portion of the population than has eduroam credentials (at least so far).

Thanks,

Curtis


________________________________________
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of Hunter Fuller <hf0...@uah.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 12:39 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Eduroam adoption (and migration process)

Curtis,

That makes sense. But, if a user set up an evil twin on your campus, it would 
not matter, because you are using EAP-TLS, right? So you're not vulnerable to 
the attack where a user's credentials might be exposed.

If they wanted to exploit some other flaw that can be exploited via evil twin, 
they could still do it to your branded network.

It is also possible that I am totally misinformed on this, because we run PEAP, 
so it's a totally different beast with different mitigations.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 10:17 AM Curtis K. Larsen 
<curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu<mailto:curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu>> wrote:
I guess it boils down to an attacker being less likely to setup a fake AP/evil 
twin on the property of an institution that does not support PEAP vs. one that 
does.

-Curtis

________________________________________
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Hunter Fuller <hf0...@uah.edu<mailto:hf0...@uah.edu>>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:51 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Eduroam adoption (and migration process)

I'm still not sure I follow.

It sounds like, in your current config, you have your constituents use EAP-TLS, 
and cannot use PEAP. Meanwhile your visitors use whatever their home 
institution offers.

If you ran with only the eduroam ESSID, you could run with the same config. 
Your constituents are unable to use PEAP, and must use EAP-TLS home and abroad. 
At the same time, your visitors continue to use whatever their home institution 
offers. This is a viable config.

I understand keeping two ESSIDs for branding though of course. We were lucky as 
we didn't have branded ESSIDs before eduroam either. So it was no loss to move 
to eduroam.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 09:41 Curtis K. Larsen 
<curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu<mailto:curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu><mailto:curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu<mailto:curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu>>>
 wrote:
My point is not that eduroam mandates a given EAP type.  My point is that if a 
given EAP type presents a vulnerability to users that will come into my 
institution's property but I allow it anyway so that another institution's 
configuration will be compatible - then I have surrendered a better security 
stance to facilitate that compatibility.  This is because the SSID is the same.

On the other hand, if I have a unique university SSID - I can easily choose the 
EAP type and thus mitigate the vulnerability more fully - this is now easy to 
do with various onboarding tools.  With HS 2.0 the roaming agreements can still 
be in place and we don't care about the SSID.  To me that sounds like the best 
of both worlds.

-Curtis

________________________________________
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>>
 on behalf of Cappalli, Tim (Aruba Security) 
<t...@hpe.com<mailto:t...@hpe.com><mailto:t...@hpe.com<mailto:t...@hpe.com>>>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 3:54 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Eduroam adoption (and migration process)

Can you elaborate on this comment?

“whereas with eduroam we were kind of locked-in to the PEAP model.”

Eduroam is EAP agnostic.




On 4/27/17, 10:57 PM, "The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
on behalf of Curtis K. Larsen" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
 on behalf of 
curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu<mailto:curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu><mailto:curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu<mailto:curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu>>>
 wrote:

    We also use eduroam and a university SSID and one benefit I've seen is that 
when our CISO decided to deprecate PEAP due to the "fake AP/MITM - exposed 
password" issue and favor EAP-TLS - we could easily control our own destiny 
with our own SSID whereas with eduroam we were kind of locked-in to the PEAP 
model.  Lesser security will often result when universal compatibility is the 
goal.  I mean we could force our own users to use EAP-TLS at home and abroad 
but in my opinion we could not truly say that we've done everything possible to 
mitigate the PEAP vulnerability while still propping up a PEAP SSID org-wide 
even if PEAP only ends up being used by visitors.

    We currently offer long-term EAP-TLS connections on our university SSID to 
any guest willing to provide an SMS number (Cloudpath Feature).  It turns out 
that the SMS-capable phone carrying population is much larger than those with 
eduroam credentials so far, and phone numbers are possibly more valuable to 
administrators than AD credentials of participating institutions in resolving 
issues.  In my opinion, as onboarding solutions mature the SSID becomes less 
important, and who knows maybe with Hotspot 2.0 completely irrelevant?  
Something to consider at least when making that decision anyway.

    --
    Curtis K. Larsen
    Senior Network Engineer
    University of Utah IT/CIS
    Office 801-587-1313<tel:(801)%20587-1313>

    ___________________________________
    From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>>
 on behalf of Les Ridgley 
<les.ridg...@newcastle.edu.au<mailto:les.ridg...@newcastle.edu.au><mailto:les.ridg...@newcastle.edu.au<mailto:les.ridg...@newcastle.edu.au>>>
    Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 10:10 PM
    To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
    Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Eduroam adoption (and migration process)

    We retained both the eduroam SSID and the university one for the reasons of 
branding and more importantly for us, to ensure that our users on a site that 
has multiple institutions broadcasting the eduroam SSID we could guarantee 
connection to our network by using the university SSID.

    Had we only broadcast the eduroam SSID there was the possibility that the 
user could unknowingly connect to another institutions eduroam SSID and then 
not have the same access to system resources that they would experience had 
they connected to our SSID.

    We have not experienced significant support difficulties and allow the 
users to use either SSID at their own discretion.

    HTH,
    Les.

    From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>]
 On Behalf Of Brian Helman
    Sent: Friday, 28 April 2017 1:26 PM
    To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
    Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Eduroam adoption (and migration process)


    A related question came up today when discussing whether or not to get rid 
of our branded SSID or not once eduroam is up and running on our network.  
Specifically:

    For those who decided to keep both the branded and eduroam SSID's (and 
assuming they are identical in terms of access for your institutional users) -- 
have there been any issues in doing so?  For example, does it cause confusion 
to users or doesn't it matter to them?  Any support issues either with the 
people directly supporting the users and/or managing the wireless network?  If 
you decided to keep both .. do you regret this decision or are you 
happy/neutral with it?

    Conversely, if you DID decide to go with only the eduroam SSID, has anyone 
regretted this decision?

    We're just trying to get a fuller understanding before we decide to remove 
the branded SSID.  We do think that's what people will look for .. especially 
those not familiar with eduroam.

    Thanks!

    -Brian


    ________________________________
    From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>]
 on behalf of Brian Helman 
[bhel...@salemstate.edu<mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu><mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu<mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu>>]
    Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 1:57 PM
    To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
    Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Eduroam adoption (and migration process)
    Ahh, I see.  They are separate networks.  We are using a NAC to place users 
in their proper vlan, so there’s no differentiation between our current 
university ssid and eduroam.

    By the way, I keep writing “EDUROAM”.  I know it’s “eduroam” .. it’s just 
habit from typing “EDUCAUSE”.

    Thanks!

    -Brian

    From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>]
 On Behalf Of John Heartlein
    Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 1:52 PM
    To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
    Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Eduroam adoption (and migration process)

    Hello Brian.  SLU-users has more direct access to internal services like 
file and print services that we didn't want to provide to eduroam users.  If we 
were ever to lock down SLU-users more to require VPN access to all internal 
resources, I think we'd recommend re-evaluating our SSIDs.

    On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 8:14 AM, Brian Helman 
<bhel...@salemstate.edu<mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu><mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu<mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu>><mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu<mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu><mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu<mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu>>>>
 wrote:
    John,

    Do you know what the thought process was behind maintaining both an EDUROAM 
SSID as well as your SLU-users?  I’m just firing up our SSID for EDUROAM 
university-wide this week, so it would be the summer before our legacy SSID 
would go away.  If there is a compelling reason that we haven’t discovered for 
keeping the legacy SSID, I certainly don’t want to get rid of it.

    -Brian

    From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>>]
 On Behalf Of John Heartlein
    Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 5:08 PM
    To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>>
    Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Eduroam adoption (and migration process)

    Saint Louis University deployed eduroam in late 2015.  Besides eduroam we 
have an 802.1x SSID SLU-users for our students, faculty, and staff.  We also 
have SLUguest for guests and legacy devices.  Here's a link to more information:

    
https://www.slu.edu/its/services-and-products/internet-and-network-services/wireless-networks-at-slu

    On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Brian Helman 
<bhel...@salemstate.edu<mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu><mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu<mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu>><mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu<mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu><mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu<mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu>>>>
 wrote:
    We have moved into the “testing” phase of our EDUROAM connectivity.  I’m 
hoping to fire up the EDUROAM SSID university-wide next week.  Currently, we 
have a .1x SSID that will stay through the summer.  Once EDUROAM is fully 
pushed, we’ll start our advertisement campaign to get people to log in to it.  
I would have waited until the summer to fire up EDUROAM so it is just available 
when everyone returns in the fall, but there’s such a strong benefit for our 
students, staff and faculty if they are traveling over the summer that I want 
to get it to them.

    There will be no “force move”, but the old .1x SSID won’t be available in 
the fall, so it benefits them to change their config now.   One note, we don’t 
currently support devices that do not support WPA/2 Enterprise (.1x) on our 
wireless network.  Essentially, we’re talking about gaming consoles (whether 
they support .1x or not), smart tv’s and media devices.  Students are told 
those devices need to be Ethernet-capable.  I suspect we’re at least another 
year away from supporting non-WPA/2 Ent devices on our wireless network.

    From what I have seen and it my discussions with our peers at other 
institutions, unless there is a marketing reason the .1x auths are via EDUROAM 
and the branded SSID’s are either specialized or they go away.

    -Brian

    From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>>]
 On Behalf Of Bucklaew, Jerry
    Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 8:35 AM
    To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>>
    Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Eduroam adoption (and migration process)

    We are currently moving to eduraom as the primary ssid.   We are doing a 
communication campaign and will retire the old 802.1x ssid at some point.  We 
do have a non802.1x ssid for “other” devices.  It is a “start here” ssid that 
will also configure you for 802.1x.

    From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>]
 On Behalf Of Marcelo Maraboli
    Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 5:17 PM
    To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU><mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>>
    Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Eduroam adoption (and migration process)

    Hello everyone.

    We are finally adopting EduROAM in our University and we currently have one
    SSID with MAC-based authentication, so moving to EduROAM is also a 802.1x 
upgrade
    for us as well.

    Would you be so kind to respond a couple of questions?:


    If you adopted EduROAM as your primary SSID:
    - Did you leave an SSID for legacy devices ? (What AUTH mechanism for this 
SSID?)
    - How did you "force-move" your users to EdoROAM from your old SSID ?

    If you added EduROAM as just another SSID:
    - why not adopt EduROAM as your primary SSID ?  (Branding or no interest? )
    - Is your primary SSID also 802.1x o MAC-based ?
    - if 802.1x, why have 2 SSIDs with 802.1x ?


    thank you all,
    --
    Marcelo Maraboli Rosselott
    Subdirector de Redes y Seguridad
    Dirección de Informática
    Pontificia Universidad Católica de Chile
    
http://informatica.uc.cl/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__informatica.uc.cl_&d=DwMGaQ&c=Pk_HpaIpE_jAoEC9PLIWoQ&r=irT60-I-yL1W4SGW22eq3Q&m=b4OwnNC5GQ_5JzNqfo9xV_eIQpeNn1TLjXNDkysa6Ao&s=W7T1LWTYU_vQnYw0nOAnrzqdqHQLBeKLGDI_pknEjdU&e=>
    --
    Campus San Joaquín, Av. Vicuña Mackenna 4860, Macul
    Santiago, Chile
    Teléfono: (56) 22354 1341
    ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
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    --
    John Heartlein | Manager - ITS Infrastructure Operations | Saint Louis 
University<http://www.slu.edu/>
    3545 Lindell Boulevard, The Marvin and Harlene Wool Center | T 
314-977-5025<tel:(314)%20977-5025><tel:314-977-5025<tel:(314)%20977-5025>>

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    Do you like our work? Let us know @ 
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    Check the University's network and telecomm status @ 
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    ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
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    ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
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    --
    John Heartlein | Manager - ITS Infrastructure Operations | Saint Louis 
University<http://www.slu.edu/>
    3545 Lindell Boulevard, The Marvin and Harlene Wool Center | T 
314-977-5025<tel:(314)%20977-5025><tel:314-977-5025<tel:(314)%20977-5025>>

     [Image removed by sender. 
www.slu.edu<http://www.slu.edu><http://www.slu.edu>] <http://www.slu.edu/>
    Do you like our work? Let us know @ 
http://www.slu.edu/its/about-its/its-recognition
    Check the University's network and telecomm status @ 
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    ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
    ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
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Hunter Fuller
Network Engineer
VBRH Annex B-1
+1 256 824 5331<tel:(256)%20824-5331>

Office of Information Technology
The University of Alabama in Huntsville
Systems and Infrastructure
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