17 dBi on 6 footer goes 32 miles here with 30 db fade margin @ 6 ghz
Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
Can you tell me the frequencies in the 6 GHz bands that are desired?
Are there any modulation limits, as to bandwidth and power output?
What sort of distances are typically involved? A 6 foot dish can push
a signal a very long distance or have a very high signal at a shorter
distance.
Lonnie
On 8/6/05, A. Huppenthal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
$20K is about right for the radios for a licensed path. $500 to $2000
for the path analysis and license.
The market has set that price. If 200 ISPs that belong to WISPA
indicated their interest.. Well Lonnie might make them or someone else.
The chipsets are there to operate in those bands, getting the FCC to
allow them to be used in that band is a challenge.
Whatever anyone wants to say about improve our effiency in using
existing spectrum, we need to be fighting for more at this point, since
there will be a swell of DSL users moving to Fixed wireless over the
next year, as Telcos attempt to dominate that marketplace. Which will
in-turn cause more congestion on the airwaves. That and the
Anti-competitive actions of telcos - pricing below cost, are the two
areas I recommend we all focus on.
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
Last I heard a guy could get a Harris system (both ends, just radios)
for a shade under $20k. Might be a bit lower now as it's been a
couple of years. For a 45 meg system that's pretty high by today's
standards.
Let me say this again guys. We're talking LICENSED bands here.
Interference isn't an issue no matter what antennas etc. are used. If
you get interference on YOUR band you can make the other guy stop.
It's just that simple.
I honestly see few down sides to this idea.
I'd sure like to see more of the 300 or so companies here chime in.
So far it's looking like 2 to 1 that we do nothing. I must admit I'm
more than a bit shocked.
Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom DeReggi"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 6 foot 6ghz antenna rule
Marlon and Lonnie,
First Off, Lonnie I fully agree with your point that we should not
suggest rules that discourage good design or make it to easy to do
poor designs.
However, saying we don't need more spectrum is rediculous, expecially
in these urban areas with lots of competition. We need to gain access
to every ounce of spectrum that we can.
I FULLY agree with Marlon, that it would be a GREAT idea to find a
way to have 6 Ghz more usable for us. It is factual that the 6 foot
antenna requirement makes it near impossible for most WISPs to use
the band cost effectively. I personally am effected by this and
could have need for the band. However doing away with the large
antenna rule all togeather I think would be a mistake. A PtP band
with safety rules is advantageous. I'd suggest asking to modify the
rules to the extent necessary to make it usable for us. For example,
what if the min antenna size requirement was reduced down to a 3 ft
dish? Thats still down to around 5 degrees, and pretty easy getting
approval for a 3 ft dish.
Marlon, whats the most cost effective 6 Ghz radios on the market
today, excluding the antennas? Just so I understand the ball park we
are talking about. When you say Licenced is still twice the cost,
that doesn't mean much unless you identify wether you were talking
about unlicenced redline or Trango :-)
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General
List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 6 foot 6ghz antenna rule
I think you guys are wrong on this. This is still a ptp band and
it's licensed. So interference issues can be dealt with.
As for links that are not correctly aimed. Why in the world would
we want to give up on what could be a very useful rule change just
because some minority (probably a very small minority) will likely
screw up?
Think, instead about how nice it would be if the manufacturers could
modify today's relatively cheap 5 gig radios to do 6 gig. It's not
all that much of a leap. But today MANY of you couldn't use that
gear because you'd never be able to mount the antennas. Or because
it's licensed gear it's still nearly twice the cost of unlicensed.
It's easy to come up with reasons not to make changes. A man once
told me that if no one ever changed we'd still all be eating with
our fingers. Your points are valid but I don't think they are likely
enough to happen that it'll matter. Or we can take steps now to
deal with those issues. Again, it's a licensed band, interference
isn't really an issue. You have protection against that.
I've got a customer in Fresno that's got no place to go with 2.4 or
900. He's using VERY high end radios in the 5 gig bands. Even the
big boy toys won't work well anymore. Even ptp links. He's getting
by but it's getting much harder all of the time. He needs the 6 gig
band to pull some ptp links around but can't use them because of the
antenna size issue.
And lets not forget about the cost part of the mix. 6' antennas are
listing for $1800 in the EC cat without a raydome. That's for a
good Radio Waves unit, but still.
I really can't see a down side to trying that comes anywhere near
the potential upside. I see a few that don't think it's a good
thing. Do the rest of you agree with that? I happen to think that
anything that gives us more flexibility without letting the bad
people out there do bad things is a good thing to try to do.
Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own
wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lonnie Nunweiler"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 6 foot 6ghz antenna rule
APC is useless if the antennas are not aimed properly or the distance
is excessive for the antenna gain. These conditions will cause the
transmitters to pump out full volume, and if the antennas are your
lower gain variety that means spraying noise everywhere.
I would recommend leaving the nice tight 6 foot dishes. That simple
rule keeps the band clean for those long distance shots, instead of
polluting it for close in shots.
You guys have to start asking yourself what you are doing wrong if you
continually need more bands. The growing trend to higher power and
wide beam antennas has to stop. We are now doing a shot with 3 foot
antennas and the CM9 Atheros radios in the 5 GHz band that is just
over 52 miles and pulling -71 to -77 dB (variance through the day),
yet I see people lining and almost drooling for the 400 mW high power
cards.
In short, most guys have little RF knowledge and they naturally take
the easy way. I would expect to see 400 mW cards and patch antennas
if the rules get changed as you are proposing.
I say that is a mistake.
Regards,
Lonnie
On 8/4/05, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Hi All,
For those that don't know, the 6 gig band is licensed ptp only.
It's a
pretty cheap license and you can get a LOT of throughput for very long
distances.
For short (less than 50 miles :-) the 6' antenna requirement often
kills the
deal because of size limits on what towers can handle. Or the
building
owner doesn't want such large antennas etc.
Certainly for something that just shoots a mile or three up the
road it's a
tough rule to deal with.
I'm not exactly sure how to go about it but I've got the name of
the person
at the FCC that'll help us if we'd like to request a rule change.
I'd like to suggest that we push for elimination of the 6' antenna
rule for
the 6 gig band. If people are worried about undue interference in
the band
due to the wider beam antennas we could toss out an APC (automatic
power
control) requirement to use smaller antennas.
Thoughts?
Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own
wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
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Lonnie Nunweiler
Valemount Networks Corporation
http://www.star-os.com/
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