Nah. What Charles misses in his commentary
But all the "fancy schmancy" technology you implement won't do @#$@ unless
3650 is licensed b/c interference from 20 other systems in the area
(including several from our GPS-synced FM-based FSK friends) eats you for
breakfast, lunch & dinner =(
is that a band doesn't need to be licensed to insure that a technology is
only competing with "like" technology. All the FCC would have to do to make
Charles presumption all wet is to only type accept 3650 products compliant
to a common spec. Unless I'm mistaken, there aren't any GPS-synced FM-based
FSK friends in the 3650 band. As long as the rules only type accept a
common interference avoidance spec (or a contention spec as many call it),
then unlicensed systems in the same band play nice.
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 2:29 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
You make the mistake of assuming that I am talking about an unlicensed
3.65
product Charles. We would not likely build a UL version of all that. I am
in
complete agreement with you on 3.650 in terms of the end reality and
utility
of the band in a licensed versus unlicensed allocation. That is why I
support essentially splitting the band.
Patrick Leary
AVP Marketing
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 10:46 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
Hi Patrick,
But all the "fancy schmancy" technology you implement won't do @#$@ unless
3650 is licensed b/c interference from 20 other systems in the area
(including several from our GPS-synced FM-based FSK friends) eats you for
breakfast, lunch & dinner =(
-Charles
-------------------------------------------
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:41 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
A. More power Tom. B. Much more sophistication in the equipment yielding
much higher spectral efficiency and system gain.
Frequency plays a major role, but you need to understand that other
factors
are of almost similar levels of importance. For example, our 802.16e
version
of WiMAX uses SOFDMA with beam forming and 4th order diversity at the base
station and MIMO with 6 antennae embedded in the self-install CPE with a
SIM
card. Couple that with higher power available in a licensed allocation and
you get zero truck roll self-install CPE with no external antenna.
Patrick Leary
AVP Marketing
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 9:23 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
3.5Ghz does,
I find that hard to believe. 2.4Ghz couldn't do it, which is why we rely
on
900Mhz.
What makes 3.5Ghz appropriate for the task?
With 3650 from what I understood, is only supposed to be allowed for PtP
or
mobile service only (not indoor) based on the high power levels allowed.
Not sure whats at the other 3.5G ranges in US.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
----- Original Message -----
From: "jeffrey thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:02 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
The benchmark is the ability to provide NLOS, portable or fixed
service to at least a 2 mile radius per cell, indoors.
5.8 doesnt really give true NLOS to that distance indoors
5.4 doesnt really give true NLOS to that distance indoors
4.9 doesnt really give true NLOS to that disance indoors
3.5Ghz does, to "portable" devices similar to the equipment used by
clearwire. Airspan for example claims their wimax solution works
indoors to about 3 miles out, which is pretty good IMHO.
When you can deliver a zero truck roll model with 90% or above
availablity, is when operators by the truckload will deploy equipment.
At that point, you will see deployments in the thousands, like the
ones in mexico of 750,000 homes serviced.
-
Jeff
On Thu, 25 May 2006 02:20:23 -0400, "Tom DeReggi"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
How do you figure?
You don't think 5.4 is going to solve part of that?
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
> Frankly,
>
> The FCC should really hurry up and finish the rules to allow the
> industry
> to
> really take off. The common view with most manufacturers I have found
> is
> that until there is 3.5ghz or near spectrum available, there will be
> small
> and limited deployments of wisp size and not many large scale
> deployments
> outside of 2.5ghz or 700 mhz operators.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/24/06 6:14 AM, "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> All the same time, the industry doesn't bother to fill out their
>> Form 477s also
>>
>> The sad thing is is that there are long term consequences towards
>> "flaunting the rules" -- namely the fact that you are just
>> reinforcing the ILEC argument that unlicensed spectrum just
>> creates a bunch of "cowboys" that
>> can't be taken seriously
>>
>> Heck, even Marlon knows better than to wear his skin-tight pink
>> flamingo
>> suit when he represents the industry in DC
>>
>> -Charles
>>
>> -------------------------------------------
>> CWLab
>> Technology Architects
>> http://www.cwlab.com
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On
>> Behalf Of jeffrey thomas
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:37 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
>>
>>
>> In the larger scale of things- when you compare this to a carrier
>> deployment which would deliver thousands of CPE's service, this is
>> a test. I know
>> of
>> one company that has recieved 28 STA's for 14 markets, for over
>> 2000
>> CPE.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On Tue, 23 May 2006 21:33:33 -0400, "Gino A. Villarini"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> said:
>>> Do you really think towerstream need 150 field units or cpes to
>>> "test"
>>> a single base station?
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> On Behalf Of Jack Unger
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:07 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
>>>
>>> Gino,
>>>
>>> Is Towerstream doing this - using 3650 to deliver commercial
>>> service?
>>>
>>> jack
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>>>
>>>> Towerstream anyone ?
>>>>
>>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> On Behalf Of Jack Unger
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:56 PM
>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
>>>>
>>>> Jeffrey,
>>>>
>>>> I have to question the "judgement ability" (or the lack of it)
>>>> of anyone who abuses the FCC rules to the extent of taking a
>>>> licensed "experimental" system and using it for a commercial,
>>>> revenue-generating
>>>> purpose. Someone who would do this is (IMHO):
>>>>
>>>> 1. Someone with no business sense
>>>> 2. Someone with no appreciation of (or experience with) the
>>>> enforcement powers of the FCC
>>>> 3. Someone who will likely turn out to be their own worst enemy
>>>> 4. NOT someone who I could rely upon to provide me reliable,
>>>> long-term
>>>> WISP service.
>>>> jack
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> jeffrey thomas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Patrick,
>>>>>
>>>>> It doesnt change the fact that many have launched "limited"
>>>>> deployments as a "test" but still charged for the access
>>>>> service, banking on the fact that the FCC has set the band
>>>>> aside for unlicensed anyways, and that the chance of the FCC
>>>>> cracking down on them is very low.
>>>>>
>>>>> Im not saying this is right, but reality is such that they will
>>>>> be evenutally amending the rules and the gear according to my
>>>>> sources that is available today will be compliant. *shrug*
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:37:11 -0700, "Patrick Leary"
>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Exactly, it clearly shows that an operator today CANNOT launch
>>>>>> any commercial services using 3650MHz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Patrick
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Charles Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:40 AM
>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650 equipment
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read below and you can decide on whether or not you will be
>>>>>> "breaking the law" w/ a 3650 deployment
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------
>>>>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>>>>> Cc: <isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com>;
>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:32 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [equipment-l] Experimental Licensing in the 3650 MHz
>>>>>> Band -
>>>>>> Clarifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Recently, there have been some misleading advertisements
>>>>>> promising turn-key 3.65 GHz licensing services as a means of
>>>>>> avoiding interference in congested license-exempt ISM/UNII
>>>>>> bands. Although the FCC issued adopted rules
>>>>>> back
>>>>>> in March 2005 to open access to new spectrum for wireless
>>>>>> broadband
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> 3.65 GHz band, a "minor" contention-based requirement has delayed
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> deployment of wireless broadband services in this band as
>>>>>> equipment
>>>>>> manufacturers currently work behind the scenes to iron out the
>>>>>> details.
>>
>>>>>> As
>>>>>> things currently stand, deploying a 3.65 GHz system today
>>>>>> falls
>>>>>> under
>>>>>> Subpart 5: Experimental Radio Service of the FCC Rules.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Infrastructure Investment & Experimentation under Part 5 needs
>>>>>> to be done strictly from a "curiosity" perspective rather than
>>>>>> one of "commercial network expansion." Part 5 permits
>>>>>> experimentation in scientific or technical operations directly
>>>>>> related to the use of radio waves. The rules provide the
>>>>>> opportunity to experiment with new techniques or new services
>>>>>> prior to submitting proposals to the FCC to change its rules.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some useful excerpts regarding Experimental Licensing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 47CFR5.3: Scope of Service
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stations operating in the Experimental Radio Service will be
>>>>>> permitted to conduct the following type of operations:
>>>>>> (a) Experimentations in scientific or technical radio research
>>>>>> (b) Experimentations under contractual agreement with the
>>>>>> United
>> States
>>>>>> Government, or for export purposes.
>>>>>> (c) Communications essential to a research project.
>>>>>> (d) Technical demonstrations of equipment or techniques.
>>>>>> (e) Field strength surveys by persons not eligible for
>>>>>> authorization
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> any other service.
>>>>>> (f) Demonstration of equipment to prospective purchasers by
>>>>>> persons
>>>>>> engaged in the business of selling radio equipment.
>>>>>> (g) Testing of equipment in connection with production or
>>>>>> regulatory
>>>>>> approval of such equipment.
>>>>>> (h) Development of radio technique, equipment or engineering
>>>>>> data
>> not
>>>>>> related to an existing or proposed service, including field or
>>>>>> factory testing or calibration of equipment.
>>>>>> (i) Development of radio technique, equipment, operational
>>>>>> data
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> engineering data related to an existing or proposed radio
>>>>>> service.
>>>>>> (j) Limited market studies.
>>>>>> (k) Types of experiments that are not specifically covered
>>>>>> under
>>>>>> paragraphs (a) through (j) of this section will be considered
>>>>>> upon demonstration of need
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 47CFR5.51: Eligibility of License
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (a) Authorizations for stations in the Experimental Radio
>>>>>> Service
>> will
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> issued only to persons qualified to conduct experimentation
>>>>>> utilizing radio waves for scientific or technical operation
>>>>>> data directly related to a use of radio not provided by
>>>>>> existing rules; or for communications in connection
>>>>>> with research projects when existing communications facilities
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> inadequate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 47CFR5.63: Supplementary Statements
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (a) Each applicant for an authorization in the Experimental
>>>>>> Radio
>>>>>> Service
>>>>>> must enclose with the application a narrative statement
>>>>>> describing in detail the program of research and
>>>>>> experimentation proposed, the specific objectives sought to be
>>>>>> accomplished; and how the program of experimentation
>>>>>> has a reasonable promise of contribution to the development,
>>>>>> extension,
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> expansion, or utilization of the radio art, or is along lines not
>> already
>>>>>> investigated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For further information regarding experimental licensing, the
>>>>>> FCC has a nice online FAQ that gives a step-by-step how-to on
>>>>>> experimental licensing:
>>>>>> http://www.fcc.gov/oet/faqs/elbfaqs.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------
>>>>>> CWLab
>>>>>> Technology Architects
>>>>>> http://www.cwlab.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
*******************************************************************
>>>>>> ******
>>> *
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>>>> ********
>>>>>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been
>>>>>> scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious
>>>>>> code, vandals & computer viruses.
>>>
>>>>>
*************************************************************************
>>> *
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>>>> ********
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
*******************************************************************
>>>>>> ******
>>> *
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>>>> ********
>>>>>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been
>>>>>> scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious
>>>>>> code, vandals & computer viruses.
>>>
>>>>>
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>>> *
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>>>> ********
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
>>> Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of
>>> the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" True
>>> Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
>>> Our next WISP Workshop is June 21-22 in Atlanta, GA. Phone (VoIP
>>> Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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