Hello Tom, Well, that's the point we're trying to make here as to why not all radios are equal. Achieving advertised payloads 24x7 and not "up to" or "best effort" regardless of the environment (for the most part) is where the line is drawn.
Good example is a TeraBridge 5x45 PtP radio set that costs between $8k - $15k depending on antennas, volume pricing etc. This is a radio that produces 45Mbps FDX period. No auto-rating, no ARQ, no ifs, no ands or buts. That's 90Mbps aggregate using only two 16Mhz wide channels. This radio was originally designed and built probably long before Trango even existed and has changed brand names no less than four times during its life. As the saying goes; They just don't make 'em like that anymore! lol Of course that doesn't mean the radio is immune to interference, but as long as you have enough gain over and above the noise floor they produce 45Mbps FDX. We have several pairs running in arguably one of the noisiest environments in the nation. In two separate cases we tried the Atlas at either side of a TeraBridge and the Atlas just couldn't cut the mustard. The Atlas is truly a toy in comparison to the TeraBridge. Back to the point of this thread...the Exalt radios look promising. I hope we see more products like the TeraBridge and Exalt radios. In order for us to keep ahead of the LECs and cable companies we need better products not cheaper ones. Best, Brad -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 5:57 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: Anyone using Exalt radios???? Brad, I recognize your points and don't deny them. But I get what I get where I get it. What I've been finding is that similar expereince is received with other products.(Meaning they don't always get their speed either). Most of my Atlas Links (above 10 miles) are not running at top modulation, they usually operating optimally (no packet loss and low latency) at the 36mbps modulation level, which pushes real data of significantly less, I forget the exact speeds with IPerf, but it was real close to 30 mbps. I don't have a single Atlas running slower than that in service. But on shorter links, we've gotten full modulation and full speed (45mbps) out of the Atlas. I believe I did post some speed results on the list over the summer. But you are right you can't get it in a very noisy environment, if you have to get the TX and RX power to high. But its not really a distance limit, its a delicate balancing act to get everything just right. (RX signal not to high, TX power not to high, RSSI >20db above noise floor ). Its all controlled by using the right antenna. The Atlas also makes a GREAT 5.3-54 backhaul, for links under 5-7 miles. When it operates at the low power, it runs much cleaner. PS. recognize that my first post, I did not catch that the Exalts were FDX. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Belton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 10:47 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Re: Anyone using Exalt radios???? Hello Tom, Yes auto-rate was off and ARQ was on. We tried every combination possible at the direction of Trango. While I agree my experiences with Atlas may be on the worse side of the scale I know many operators that have had the same poor experiences with Atlas as we have. I would venture to guess you are one of very few that has seen 45Mbps out of an Atlas. Just to clarify; we are talking about payload, right? Yes, antenna upgrades are common place with us. Gabriel, RadioWaves and MTi are our antennas of choice. You should know that more than anyone as I was one if not the biggest proponent of better antennas as it relates to Trango! 45Mbps HDX out of an Atlas, eh? Sure would like to see some proof of that...screenshot perhaps? Certainly you're not going to claim an Atlas can produce 45Mbps FDX as well are you? After all, FDX is what this topic is all about. Best, Brad -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 12:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: Anyone using Exalt radios???? Brad, I'm aware of your Atlas experience. We've gotten Full 45mbps out of an Atlas numerous times. However, I admit, often that does require antenna size upgrade, and that needs to be factored into the end cost for comparison. >Add a little noise to the equation and that puppy will auto-rate >itself down to the 10Mbps neighborhood in a heartbeat. Thats why you turn off auto-rate, and turn on ARQ. I guess I just never get that excited about buying a radio that costs more than a decent car. (when a car technically is much more expensive to make) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Belton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:53 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Re: Anyone using Exalt radios???? Not only that, but the Atlas isn't capable of 45Mbps in any form much less FDX. Most we've ever seen out of an Atlas is maybe 20Mbps HDX with very clean air. Add a little noise to the equation and that puppy will auto-rate itself down to the 10Mbps neighborhood in a heartbeat. Believe me these "up to" or "best effort" radios are tempting, but until you deploy a few $15k - $30k PtP radio sets that actually produce what they claim you won't understand what we're talking about. When I say "you" I'm not directing that at anyone in particular just a general comment. Best, Brad -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: Anyone using Exalt radios???? Tom, You're gonna bond 2 atlas links and get close to 100 Mb full duplex????? How is that?? The 200 Mb Exalt is 100 Mb TX /100 Mb RX If you use your equation you really need 4 Trango radios which is 5 x $3000 = $15000 and that will give you 100 mb with 50/50 MIR. Not to say what you would use up in spectrum (20 Mhz. x 5 = 100 Mhz......OK...you could play with polarity with good antennas and probably do better). So the Exalt doesn't look that expensive after all........ :-) And BTW: I was told to expect MIR control for asymetrical bandwidth soon... -B- Tom DeReggi wrote: >> The advertised throughput on a 200 Mhz radio is 100 Mb true >> throughput in each direction port to port. The radio throughput is >> based on a 64 Mhz channel. > > > OK so lets compare to Trango Atlas or Alvarion Backhaul (which has > similar metrics) with equivellent speed models. Taking that maybe only > 1% of my market could pull off a 64Mhz channel. > > Exalt Specs... 200rating @ 64Mhz = 100 mbps then > 100rating @ 32Mhz = 50 mbps... @ $16,000 list. > This of course being best case based on noise > level and acheivalbe modulation. > > Trango Specs.... 54rating @ 20Mhz = 45 mbps, for $3000. > So, if I bonded two Atlas Links, I'd get equivelent performance to the > high performance version at 30% less spectrum use, and 1/5 th the cost. > Now of Course Trango, is Ethernet only, and does not have the wayside > T1 support or Fiber/GPS features. And there is value to that for > someone offering Voice services also. > > All I'm saying is that the street price sure better be a lot lower > than the list price listed, as you suggeset it is. The second you are > in the > $15,000 range, you might as well be doing licensed for the > extra $1000 bucks or two to make it survivable. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lakeland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 7:44 PM > Subject: [WISPA] Re: Anyone using Exalt radios???? > > >> Personally I couldn't be happier. They work as expected and stated. >> They have relatively straight forward GUI interfaces, you can move >> the center of the channel to any 1 Mhz. division, it works on 5.3, >> you can get a straight indoor only unit or an outdoor unit with >> integral antenna or N connectors, they have 2 year warranty. OOB >> replacement guarantee, the inegral antenna has electronic polarity >> control, it can syc all units on a msite so you can use one channel, >> the gps option is very reasonable and you don't need a central >> controller or cabling between radios. User defined latency and >> channel bandwidth as well as free upgrade to 5.4 when it becomes >> available. >> The advertised throughput on a 200 Mhz radio is 100 Mb true >> throughput in each direction port to port. The radio throughput is >> based on a 64 Mhz channel. >> Now lets address the Motorola Orthogon for a minute. It has no GPS >> syncing. It has no integral fiber interface. The fiber "kit" is an >> option that allows for cable runs in excess of POE lengths but you >> still need external power. I can put a media converter and external >> power on a Exalt radio also. >> As far as the bandwidth is concerned the Orthogon still uses 60 MHz >> to give full bandwidth. It just uses 30 on vertical and 30 on >> horizontal. >> On a positive note for Exalt the C/I is much better on the Exalt >> radio which ultimately guarantees better distance in noisy environments. >> The pricin on the Connectronics site is MSRP. You can get it quite a >> bit lower... >> -B- >> >> >> >> >> >> John Scrivner writes: >> >>> Bob, >>> Tell us about your experiences with these. Work as advertised? >>> Approximate cost per pair? >>> Thanks, >>> Scriv Bob Moldashel wrote: >>> >>>> Just looking for experiences.... Personally I think they rock but >>>> just looking to see if anyone else has any pros/cons.... >>>> www.exaltcom.com 100 Mb FD 2.4 Ghz. radio. Hmmmm..... I bet >>>> Marlon would love to have one of these for a neighbor! :-) -B- >>> >>> -- >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> -- >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
