I won't join into the arguement of B versus G and Amp versus no amp, but
I
will say....
I got three links working last week, using Cloaking, that were not able
to
be made work without Cloaking ability.
When I can make a software parameter change and go from bad link to good
link, thats something that can not be ignored.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 12:07 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Typical OFDM CPE antennas
> No you don't.
>
> wpci1: atheros 100 -73dbm -96dbm 23 2442 sta,U1,x2
> 00:80:48:39:8e:42
>
> war-platform ~ > starutil 10.10.251.1 password -rx
> rx rate: 1220 KB/sec (Press Ctrl-C to exit)
> war-platform ~ >
> war-platform ~ > traceroute -n 10.10.251.1
> traceroute to 10.10.251.1 (10.10.251.1), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
> 1 10.10.67.1 5.532 ms 10.319 ms 4.523 ms
> 2 10.10.12.5 6.805 ms 11.779 ms 4.623 ms
> 3 10.10.227.1 5.018 ms 6.86 ms 5.174 ms
> 4 10.10.226.254 5.307 ms 7.747 ms 5.948 ms
> 5 10.10.251.1 8.279 ms 12.21 ms 5.814 ms
>
> This is the client at 13 miles in X2 cloaking. The AP is a 16 dB 60
> degree sector and the client is a 24 dB grid. If this were an AP in
> the middle I could just as easily use a 15 dB omni and achieve almost
> identical results. Both units have a Compex WLM-54SuperG radio. No
> high power, no amplifiers. I don't need it and neither do you.
>
> An amplifier adds noise and worse, it increases the time to transition
> from tx to rx, which requires that you use long preamble which slows
> performance down. The worst thing it adds is signal, which you do not
> need and which messes up areas outside your coverage.
>
> You have been using amps for so long you just believe you always have
> to use them. A lot of companies have made a lot of money selling
> unnecessary amplifiers and they prey on the guys who do not know any
> better. That is fine normally and you would just laugh at the guy for
> not knowing better, but when that guy is in the same area as you are
> trying to serve, then it is not funny.
>
> Lonnie
>
> On 2/4/07, Marlon K. Schafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> with sites that have 10 users in a 15 mile RADIUS, you have to have an
>> amp....
>> marlon
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 11:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Typical OFDM CPE antennas
>>
>>
>> > Amps?
>> >
>> > The success of G is less noise and less power. IMHO
>> >
>> > Never looked for a G amp or tried a G high powered card.
>> >
>> >
>> > Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> >> Has anyone found an amp that'll work CORRECTLY with g AND b?
>> >> marlon
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Rogato"
>> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>> >> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 11:21 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Typical OFDM CPE antennas
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Nothing scientific Mac, but I think lots of G ap's work better
>> >>> than
>> >>> lots
>> >>> of B ap's.
>> >>>
>> >>> Seems when I've seen high powered B ap's in the mix there can be
>> >>> issues.
>> >>> Where as when I see only low powered G things still work.
>> >>>
>> >>> The area I cover is fairly small, so i'm getting densly built out
>> >>> with
>> >>> omni's and sectors all over the place.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Mac Dearman wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> How are y'all running "G" in so many places? I would love to
>> >>>> implement
>> >>>> G,
>> >>>> but I have so many towers sectored out and then we have so many
>> >>>> clients
>> >>>> running wireless routers close to the CPE that I feel like there
>> >>>> would
>> >>>> be
>> >>>> trouble in Paradise here!!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Are any of you running G on anything but an Omni antenna?
>> >>>> (Multiple
>> >>>> antennas on one tower?)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Mac
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >>>> On
>> >>>> Behalf Of Lonnie Nunweiler
>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:30 PM
>> >>>> To: WISPA General List
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Typical OFDM CPE antennas
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Totally agree. A bad G link will still give as good as a GOOD B
>> >>>> link.
>> >>>> G will give 5 mbps even when it is close to not connecting and B
>> >>>> requires superb signals to get 5 mbps.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Lonnie
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 2/4/07, George Rogato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> I have quite abit of G out there. All the clients and ap's I
>> >>>>> install
>> >>>>> today are G.
>> >>>>> 60's is great, 70's work just fine too.
>> >>>>> 60's get top performance, 70' is still a great very fast
>> >>>>> connection
>> >>>>> and
>> >>>>> even low 80's beat B.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> B stands for Bad
>> >>>>> G stands for Good
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> It's not about antenna size. It's about signal levels.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Most g radios need -60ish signal levels to work well. Use the
>> >>>>>> antennas
>> >>>>>> that you need to make it work right.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Find the sensitivity levels of the product you are using, run
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>> calcs,
>> >>>>>> and compute a 10 dB or so fade margin.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> laters,
>> >>>>>> marlon
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom DeReggi"
>> >>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 12:38 PM
>> >>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Typical OFDM CPE antennas
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I wanted to get some feedback from the List.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Typically, what Dbi gain antennas are you desiring for OFDM
>> >>>>>>> short
>> >>>>>>> Near-LOS or Mid-range CPE links?
>> >>>>>>> Is 18 dbi enough?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'm well aware that 18dbi will not be good for many
>> >>>>>>> applications
>> >>>>>>> (long
>> >>>>>>> range or noisy), but what percentage of CPE installtions would
>> >>>>>>> it
>> >>>>>>> be
>> >>>>>>> good for?
>> >>>>>>> Could 75% of the CPE installs be acheived with 18dbi?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I personally, would pick a 21-23db antenna as a preferred
>> >>>>>>> choice,
>> >>>>>>> but
>> >>>>>>> PacWireless Rootennas are 19dbi, and often used with 13-15 dbm
>> >>>>>>> CM9
>> >>>>>>> cards. The beamwidth of 18dbi (< 20-30 degrees) is pretty good
>> >>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>> interference resilience and OFDM maximized, and if more gain
>> >>>>>>> was
>> >>>>>>> needed it could be accommodated with higher power radios such
>> >>>>>>> Teletronic's >18dbm Atheros cards or Ubiquiti's SR5 18-26db
>> >>>>>>> cards.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Tom DeReggi
>> >>>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> >>>>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> >>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> George Rogato
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Welcome to WISPA
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> www.wispa.org
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> George Rogato
>> >>>
>> >>> Welcome to WISPA
>> >>>
>> >>> www.wispa.org
>> >>>
>> >>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >>> --
>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >>>
>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >>>
>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > George Rogato
>> >
>> > Welcome to WISPA
>> >
>> > www.wispa.org
>> >
>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>> > --
>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >
>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >
>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> --
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
> --
> Lonnie Nunweiler
> Valemount Networks Corporation
> http://www.star-os.com/
> --
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
